Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge

From	Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge
Date	2013-07-11 22:38 +0200
Message-ID	<87y59cn86j.fsf@csgate4.strotmann.de> (permalink)
References	<51ae2e6d$0$26867$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>

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albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:

> Remember we discussed jonesforth at the German convention?
> I take up the challenge to make a similar forth.
>
> What do we want? The enticement of jonesforth but
>   - ISO compatibility (for all words with an ISO name that is)
>   - no words in assembler if Forth is feasible
>   - one file, Forth coded in assembler
>

sorry for coming late to the party, I started this discussion during
the german Forth meeting in April. I was busy working in May and June,
so I couldn't follow c.l.f., including this discussion.

The slides and a video is available at 
<http://forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/events:tagung-2013>
(but all in german language)

I presented my observations during the meeting:

* there are a number of good forth systems for "beginners" available
  today (4e4th, amForth ...)  

* there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a
  Forth system

* JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws

* open question: is a better "model" Forth for implementation needed?

in the discussion we had pro- and con arguments, similar to the
arguments presented here.

The result of the discussion was to organize a meeting in the 2nd half
of 2013 to work on the topic.

The meeting will be held @ LinuxHotel in Essen/Germany
(www.linuxhotel.de) in October or November 2013. I will send an
invitation out to the members of the german Forth group and to this
newsgroup (c.l.f) later in July.

We probably can organize remote participation using Jabber (Audio/Video)
for anyone that is interested but cannot travel to Essen/Germany.

The preliminary agenda for the weekend is (open for discussion):

* Friday evening: defining the goal
* Saturday: coding
* Sunday: documentation work

My personal ideas/goals are:

* a simple but modern forth system and model
* small enough to grasp in one day (for an average developer that has
  some knowledge on assembly)
* runs on real hardware/OS
* can be extended into a "complete" Forth system (for any level of
  "complete")
* a pure assembly listing and a meta-compiled forth source code that
  produce the same binary
* assembly listings and implementations for many architectures (ARM,
  X86_64, MIPS, OpenRISC, 6502, Z80, AVR ...) possible (the model should
  not restrict the implementation)     

-- Carsten

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Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> - 2013-07-11 22:38 +0200
  Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 14:08 -0700
    Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 01:53 +0000
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-11 23:49 -0700
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 12:24 +0000
    Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> - 2013-07-12 12:29 +0000
  Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 01:42 +0000
    Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 19:42 -0700
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 02:56 +0000
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 20:16 -0700
          Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-12 03:14 -0400
            Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 00:35 -0700
              Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-12 04:02 -0400
                Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 09:08 +0000
                Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-13 06:16 -0400
              Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-12 03:02 -0500
                yourforth : progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-01 11:00 +0000
    Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 06:10 +0000
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 12:37 +0000
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 12:56 +0000
          Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 13:55 +0000
            Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 14:22 +0000
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 14:30 +0000
          Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 11:12 -0700
            Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 19:01 +0000
              Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 23:05 -0700
                Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-18 19:38 +0000
    Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-12 00:10 -0700
  Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 16:55 +0000
    jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-18 19:18 +0000
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-18 11:18 -1000
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-18 23:23 +0200
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 00:47 -0700
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 00:54 -0700
        Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-19 09:50 +0000
          Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-19 05:24 -0500
      Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-22 09:47 +0000

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