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Re: Request for comments on a first forth program

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hughaguilar96@yahoo.com writes:

> On Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:37:02 AM UTC-7, Christian Kellermann wrote:
>
>> hughaguilar96@yahoo.com writes:
>> > As I said before, you should not initialize data-structures when
>> > defining them. You should have a word INIT that initializes
>> > everything. If you don't want to do a TRY and recompile the code
>> > (because you haven't changed the source-code), you can just do an INIT
>> > and run it again.
>> 
>> Which data-structures are you referring to? The buffers?  These are not
>> meant to be resizeable once the program runs.  The other magic values in
>> my code that aren't set by words are constants and necessary to
>> determine the memory the buffers need to hold.
>
> I was referring to code like this:
>
> variable #moves 0 #moves ! 
> variable #teleports 3 #teleports ! 
>
> 2 value #robots 
>
> You want to have a word like this:
>
> : init
>     0 #moves ! 
>     3 #teleports ! 
>     2 to #robots 
> ;
>
> INIT gets your program back to a pristine state. That way you can test
> it from a known configuration.
>
> As your program is currently written, you have to recompile to get
> back to a known state. Compilation in Forth is quite fast, so this
> isn't a terribly bad thing, and with TRY it is convenient. Still
> though, it is a bad design in which you to have to recompile every
> time that the program is run.

Ok, I am still a bit confused about this though. How does INIT differ
from RESET-GAME and/or INIT-PLAYER which sets these? Arguably #robots
only gets reset in RUN but this has been quite convenient when testing…


> This bit about INIT is a fairly minor point. I still think that the
> best way to simplify your program is like this:
>
> 1.) Use structs to reduce the amount of data that you have on the
> stack. For example, a struct for a point that contains X and Y
> coordinates, rather than putting the X and Y data directly on the
> stack.
>
> 2.) Use an array definer. You currently implement several arrays
> manually, which tends to clutter up your source-code. You don't want
> low-level code, such as array access, intermingled with your
> application code --- factoring out the low-level code helps make your
> application code shorter and easier to read.

For larger code bases this may be true but I think this is
overdoing it for this little program. Also while a REQUIRE or INCLUDE
from a library makes this program shorter to read it becomes more
difficult to understand as I would have to read the included source code
part first, as people already had to do with the RANDOM word I used.

In general I tend to agree though, abstraction is good…

> If you don't yet know how to implement structs or arrays, or definer
> words in general, then you can use what I have provided in the novice
> package. The point of the novice package is to allow people to get
> started on writing programs, without requiring them to first implement
> a lot of low-level support code. Later on you will likely develop your
> own package of low-level code, but that is not something that you want
> to get bogged down in right now.

…but I like to implement my own abstractions which I fully know and
understand. To abstract things you first have to know the inner workings
then you can forget about them for a while. But I guess know I am
preaching to the choir.

> Keep at it! Your Forth code is quite good for a first effort. :-)

Thanks for your supportive comments!

Christian

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Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-19 11:39 +0200
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 13:04 +0300
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 12:43 -0400
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-19 05:28 -0500
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-19 03:56 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-19 04:00 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 12:51 -0400
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:28 +0200
        Re: Request for comments on a first forth program anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-22 15:43 +0000
          Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-24 20:00 -0700
            Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-25 10:37 +0200
              Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-26 00:00 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-26 09:34 +0200
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-25 21:40 -1000
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-27 20:16 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-29 10:09 +0200
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-29 04:14 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-29 07:49 -0500
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-29 15:32 -1000
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-31 17:50 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-31 13:23 +0200
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-31 18:05 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-08-01 12:53 +0200
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-01 09:58 -0500
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-01 20:42 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-08-04 18:53 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-04 22:05 -0500
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-04 20:54 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-17 17:06 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-05 05:50 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-17 17:45 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-08-05 22:14 +0200
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-06 21:11 -0700
                Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-01 01:04 -0500
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-19 18:06 +0000
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:31 +0200
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:24 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-22 15:32 +0000
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-19 06:49 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:34 +0200
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 07:19 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:41 +0200
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-19 07:55 -1000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:47 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-20 11:15 -1000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-20 20:09 -0700
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 19:36 +0100
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-20 12:36 +0000
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:53 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-07-21 02:02 +0200
        Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-20 17:18 -1000
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Ian Osgood <iano@quirkster.com> - 2013-07-23 16:07 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:48 +0200
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-20 12:18 +0000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@necronomicon.my.domain> - 2013-07-20 21:57 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-20 11:24 -1000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-22 15:53 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-22 08:06 -0700
        Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-22 19:35 +0000
          Re: Request for comments on a first forth program m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-23 00:41 -0700
          Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-23 12:00 +0200
            Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-23 12:10 +0000
              Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-23 14:19 +0200
              Re: Request for comments on a first forth program stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-24 09:27 +0000
            Re: Request for comments on a first forth program anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-23 13:44 +0000
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-20 20:02 -0700
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-21 03:36 +0000
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-20 22:28 -0700
        Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-21 10:31 +0000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-20 23:41 -0400
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-22 15:36 +0000
  Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-07-23 12:22 +0200
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2013-07-23 13:44 +0200
      Re: Request for comments on a first forth program albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-23 12:26 +0000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-23 07:10 -1000
    Re: Request for comments on a first forth program stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-24 09:30 +0000

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