Re: Forth Performance Question

From	Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Forth Performance Question
Date	2011-08-12 08:15 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86y5yy4vqf.fsf@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <j20r39$edu$1@dont-email.me> <2011Aug11.182621@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <j22nfl$ao3$1@dont-email.me> <RJadnQfnT_7lednTnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@supernews.com> <j22u47$75g$1@dont-email.me>

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Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> writes:

> So, while in C it would be easy to understand what 
>
> for(int i = x; i < 10; ++i){ ... } 
>
> does, in Forth, you would have to remember what ?DO, +DO, U+DO and 
> friends do on a case-by-case basis. 

You only have to know these words in the case that you're working on
code that uses them, in which case you can look them up simply enough.
For your own code, you don't need them; you only need DO .  Or rather,
you do not even need DO .  You only run the risk of having someone come
along to say "why don't you say <some more succint, more readable code
with a word you didn't use>", which is not so awful a fate.

Look:

  for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) ...;

is just a convenient expression for

  i = 0;
  while (i < 10) {
    ...
    i++;
  } 

Which is in Forth

  0 begin dup 10 < while ... 1+ repeat drop

DO and friends are likewise just convenient words, and especially aren't
a burden for a newbie who can avoid them in his own code.

> So perhaps a better way to learn Forth would be to learn a small subset 
> of ANS Forth, rather than a stripped-down Forth-like variant language? 
> Any pointers to what this subset would be? 

You don't need to understand every single word that your system
provides; therefore there's no need for a stripped-down system.  And ANS
Forth is _not_ big, so stripping that down is fairly pointless.  Get any
decent system, follow a tutorial maybe (I have fond memories of gforth's
"crash course"), and start learning the language.  At any given point
you'll know the subset that you know.  This is easier done than said.

Thread

Forth Performance Question TS <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-06 20:43 -0700
  Re: Forth Performance Question "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-07 01:02 -0400
    Re: Forth Performance Question Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 12:09 +0100
      Re: Forth Performance Question stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-08-16 14:08 +0000
  Re: Forth Performance Question mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2011-08-07 07:45 +0200
    Re: Forth Performance Question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-07 16:18 +0000
  Re: Forth Performance Question Bruno Gauthier <bgauthier@free.fr> - 2011-08-07 07:53 +0200
  Re: Forth Performance Question Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-07 01:01 -0500
  Re: Forth Performance Question Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-08-07 12:50 +0000
  Re: Forth Performance Question stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-08-07 11:46 +0000
  Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 17:03 +0000
    Re: Forth Performance Question Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 13:35 -0500
      Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 15:05 +0000
        Re: Forth Performance Question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-11 16:26 +0000
          Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:15 +0000
            Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-11 22:29 -1000
              Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 10:09 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 08:15 -0500
            Re: Forth Performance Question anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-12 09:31 +0000
        Re: Forth Performance Question crc <charles.childers@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 10:27 -0700
        Re: Forth Performance Question Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 13:18 -0500
        Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-11 12:00 -1000
          Re: Forth Performance Question Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-11 15:13 -0700
          Re: Forth Performance Question Charles Childers <crc_nospam@retroforth.org> - 2011-08-11 20:52 -0400
          Re: Forth Performance Question "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-12 02:19 -0400
            Re: Forth Performance Question Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 02:10 -0500
              Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-11 21:48 -1000
            Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-11 21:41 -1000
          Re: Forth Performance Question Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-23 18:52 -0700
    Re: Forth Performance Question Charles Childers <crc_nospam@retroforth.org> - 2011-08-10 23:33 -0400
      Re: Forth Performance Question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 08:59 +0300
      Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 13:48 +0000
        Re: Forth Performance Question Charles Childers <crc@retroforth.org> - 2011-08-11 10:30 -0400
    Re: Forth Performance Question Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 08:46 +0300
    Re: Forth Performance Question arc <arc@vorsicht-bissig.de> - 2011-08-12 12:20 +0000
      Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 13:59 +0000
        Re: Forth Performance Question stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-08-12 15:11 +0000
          Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 17:49 +0000
            Re: Forth Performance Question stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-08-12 19:38 +0000
            Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-12 12:41 -1000
              Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 03:35 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-12 17:52 -1000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-12 23:55 -0700
                Re: Forth Performance Question Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-08-14 09:01 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-14 01:36 -0700
                Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 01:43 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-15 16:59 -0700
                Re: Forth Performance Question Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-16 03:25 -0700
                Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 11:22 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-16 14:37 -0700
                Re: Forth Performance Question Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-08-19 14:11 +0000
                Re: Forth Performance Question Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-22 19:52 -0700
            Re: Forth Performance Question Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2011-08-13 02:28 +0200
        Re: Forth Performance Question Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2011-08-12 20:53 +0200

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