Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal

Date	2026-02-20 12:33 +1100
Subject	Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	<2026Feb9.084944@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <10modd2$2okt6$1@dont-email.me> <698fd57e$1@news.ausics.net> <nnd$0ad3ab77$499f67d9@7973d9f3cc5a9d2e> <nnd$2c1f28a6$6a63a47d@2be66b0a4fa82a61>
From	dxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<6997b9e1$1@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
Organization	Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net

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On 20/02/2026 12:38 am, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
> ... 
> Willem Ouwerkerk c.s. developed many Forths for small SBC (8051, etc.)
> This was done with a so called metacompiler. Once you get used to
> this tool, it is comparitively easy to port to new microprocessors.
> In this development path, the first thing you do is to write a
> Forth assembler for the new processor, then insert the uP-dependant
> stuff into the metacompiler tool.
> In this way the meta sources determine what is present, possibly
> a bit idiosyncratic.
> 
> I consider my assembler sources more valuable than an open source
> metacompiler system, so I choose that route.

Not only was native assembler easier for me as I mentioned, it was
considerably faster.  Running the F83 metacompiler on a 4MHz Z80 was
painfully slow.  On top of this I'd have needed to modify it to do
dictionary segmenting - my prime motivation in creating a forth.
Even the ubiquitous M80 CP/M assembler proved too slow and I invested
in an SLR Systems assembler.  Given the number of compiles I did in
development it was easily the best money I ever spent on software.
Not that I wasn't forced to learn new stuff.  Macros, code segmentation,
etc gave me enough headaches.  Looking back it seems crazy.  No regrets
however as I began to realize this was more my niche than writing
applications.  That said, if one doesn't write apps there's no way to
evaluate the effectiveness of a given forth.  How many forths never got
past creation because the author's interest waned.  For these the list
of words in ANS etc suffices.  But the forth one uses is something else.
It's the difference between a living tree and what comprises trees.
Standards are an obsession with the latter and kind of misses the point.

Thread

Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-09 07:49 +0000
  Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-10 13:36 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-10 17:48 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 11:21 +1100
        Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 09:05 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-11 12:46 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 13:36 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 20:49 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-11 18:37 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 12:25 +0100
        Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 14:34 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 11:35 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 07:24 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 10:59 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 10:13 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:22 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:07 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 20:59 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 12:35 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:44 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 07:35 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 10:55 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-13 08:27 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:43 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-02-13 23:50 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 12:53 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-15 13:33 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-16 12:18 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-19 13:42 +0100
                Evolution of Forths  was Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-19 14:38 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-20 12:33 +1100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-20 11:58 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-24 10:45 +1100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-21 16:35 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-24 13:13 +1100
          Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-02-25 20:25 -0800
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-26 06:53 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-26 13:09 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-27 20:24 +1100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-02-27 09:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-27 14:48 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-27 19:21 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 10:15 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-28 15:34 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 17:56 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-02-28 22:45 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-01 07:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-01 14:17 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-02 00:21 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-02 12:36 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-04 16:48 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-02 00:17 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-26 07:32 -0600
            Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-02 13:23 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-03 13:47 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-03 14:39 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-04 16:52 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-06 12:22 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 17:58 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-03-03 18:33 +0100
      Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 13:54 +0100
        Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 13:09 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 15:59 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 20:46 +0000
        Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-11 16:30 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 12:07 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-02-12 13:00 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 12:55 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 14:17 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:28 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 01:23 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-16 22:07 -0600
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-17 21:25 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-17 08:16 -0600
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:32 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-02-17 14:13 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-17 20:21 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-18 13:08 +1100
    Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-11 12:29 +0100
  Re: Recognizer proposal minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2026-02-18 11:14 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:40 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-24 02:43 -0600
        Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-08 18:15 -0500
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-09 07:49 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-09 10:37 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-10 07:35 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-10 12:06 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-11 09:48 -0500
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-09 16:48 -0500
              Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-11 09:45 -0500
  Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-18 12:33 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:48 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-25 14:11 +0100
  Re: Recognizer proposal NN <november.nihal@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 19:23 +0000
    Re: Recognizer proposal thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:13 +0000

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