Re: Recognizer proposal

Date	2026-02-14 12:53 +1100
Subject	Re: Recognizer proposal
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	(5 earlier) <2026Feb12.083528@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nnd$3effdfeb$06086d19@faf68284076bf848> <2026Feb13.092712@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nnd$66ce0a61$57e2020d@0ed277ac4fa8a8fd> <10modd2$2okt6$1@dont-email.me>
From	dxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<698fd57e$1@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
Organization	Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net

Show all headers | View raw

On 14/02/2026 10:50 am, Gerry Jackson wrote:
> On 13/02/2026 12:43, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>> On 13-02-2026 09:27, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>> Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 12-02-2026 08:35, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>>>> [...] small implementations
>>>>> pick and choose from the standard requirements anyway, even among the
>>>>> requirements for CORE words.  The CORE wordset has only been a
>>>>> goalpost for peoplle who implement Forth as an exercise.
>>> ...
>>>> I don't think that people who are "implementing Forth as an exercise"
>>>> can be bothered to make it "a standard compiler".
>>>
>>> The point is not standard conformance, but a goalpost: To have
>>> something to direct the work, and also to have something that tells
>>> the implementor when the project is complete.
>>>
>>>> And although wordsets build modularity (which I welcome) it becomes
>>>> useless when it requires you to patch wordsets already implemented.
>>>
>>> Who is "you" in this sentence?  Given that you write "implemented",
>>> you seem to argue that the standard requires the system implementor to
>>> implement the base word, and then to patch it.  This is not the case.
>>> The system implementor who has decided to implement the FILE words in
>>> addition to the CORE words can implement the FILE version of S" from
>>> the start, without any patching.
>>>
>>> Note also that the FILE version of S" conforms to the requirements for
>>> the CORE version of S", and that's generally the case for the extended
>>> versions of words.  E.g., the specification of CORE's POSTPONE
>>> includes
>>>
>>> | An ambiguous condition exists if name is not found.
>>>
>>> so it does not specify what "POSTPONE 123" means.  The proposed
>>> recognizer version of POSTPONE specifies that.
>>>
>>> - anton
>>
>> I could have used "one" - wouldn't have changed the meaning. Nice "Whataboutism"! The argument was (and is) what use has a standard for a toy compiler?
> 
> There's another point I think you're missing. I just looked on at my Forth test suite on GitHub and 78 people have found it useful enough to give it a star. I've no idea whether they are all developing their own "toy" system but I would guess most are, and their system has to have some testing. I suggest that the easiest way is to use an existing test suite. As far as I know there is only one, so that automatically leads them to make their system (at least partially) standard compliant. An unexpected (and unintended) consequence of having a test suite.

Cart before horse but I agree.  First-time creators will generally pick some
standard or system because it's the easiest way.  All the thinking has been
done for one and there's a wealth of existing source from which to choose or
use as a guide.  It's a rare lion that hasn't undertaken internship as a camel.
Moore appears to have been a rebel, lone wolf, from the beginning for whom
conformity was anathema, stagnation.

Thread

Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-09 07:49 +0000
  Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-10 13:36 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-10 17:48 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 11:21 +1100
        Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 09:05 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-11 12:46 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 13:36 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 20:49 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-11 18:37 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 12:25 +0100
        Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 14:34 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 11:35 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 07:24 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 10:59 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 10:13 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:22 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:07 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 20:59 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 12:35 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:44 +0100
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 07:35 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 10:55 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-13 08:27 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 13:43 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-02-13 23:50 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 12:53 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-15 13:33 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-16 12:18 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-19 13:42 +0100
                Evolution of Forths  was Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-19 14:38 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-20 12:33 +1100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-20 11:58 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-24 10:45 +1100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-21 16:35 +0100
                Re: Evolution of Forths was Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-24 13:13 +1100
          Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-02-25 20:25 -0800
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-26 06:53 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-26 13:09 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-27 20:24 +1100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-02-27 09:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-27 14:48 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-27 19:21 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 10:15 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-28 15:34 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 17:56 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-02-28 22:45 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-01 07:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-01 14:17 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-02 00:21 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-02 12:36 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-04 16:48 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-02 00:17 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-26 07:32 -0600
            Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-02 13:23 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-03 13:47 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-03 14:39 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-03-04 16:52 -0800
                Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-03-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-06 12:22 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 17:58 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-03-03 18:33 +0100
      Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 13:54 +0100
        Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 13:09 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-11 15:59 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal jkn <jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk> - 2026-02-11 20:46 +0000
        Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-11 16:30 +0000
          Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-12 12:07 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-02-12 13:00 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-12 12:55 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 14:17 +0100
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-13 13:28 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 01:23 +1100
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-16 22:07 -0600
              Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-17 21:25 +1100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-17 08:16 -0600
                Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:32 +0000
              Re: Recognizer proposal Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-02-17 14:13 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-17 20:21 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-02-18 13:08 +1100
    Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-11 12:29 +0100
  Re: Recognizer proposal minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2026-02-18 11:14 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:40 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-02-24 02:43 -0600
        Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-08 18:15 -0500
          Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-09 07:49 +0000
            Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-09 10:37 +0100
              Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-10 07:35 +0000
                Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-03-10 12:06 +0100
                Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-11 09:48 -0500
            Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-09 16:48 -0500
              Re: Recognizer proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-03-11 09:45 -0500
  Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-18 12:33 +0100
    Re: Recognizer proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-02-21 15:48 +0000
      Re: Recognizer proposal albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-25 14:11 +0100
  Re: Recognizer proposal NN <november.nihal@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 19:23 +0000
    Re: Recognizer proposal thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:13 +0000

csiph-web