Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code
Date	2013-04-22 15:32 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Apr22.173227@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <5173e14f$0$7589$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com> <7xehe31ltm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5174cd11$0$743$c3e8da3$b280bf18@news.astraweb.com> <2013Apr22.124031@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <a59f70df-dc95-40f3-b259-f151dfce0d02@googlegroups.com>

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AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:40:31 AM UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>
>> I would say neither.  "Forth" as in "Chuck Moore's approach" often
>> consists of defining large parts of the problem away (e.g., the syntax
>> of the programming language), so much, that, for many users you have
>> to spend extra effort to convince them that the solution satisfies
>> their requirements; i.e., for these users the Forth solution does not
>> look "good enough" at first.
>>
>> In any case, if there is a failing in the Forth approach, it's not in
>> trying too much to achieve perfection, but in simplifying too much.
>>=20
>
>I'm curious what you mean by 'simplifying too much'...

"Too much" means that other concerns (e.g., requiring little end-user
training) suffer so much that the system is not widely accepted
(although, thinking about SAP, acceptance comes from a good sales
force convincing the boss, not from anything related to the end-user;
requiring lots of training just increases the business volume).

>In pure maths, the meaning of 'simplification' 
[...]
>Did you mean this kind of simplicity?

No.

> Or something else?

Typical simplicity metrics used by Forth simplicity fanatics are
number of words, code size (source and binary) and execution time.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

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i finally get the messes caused by re using code the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 17:22 -0700
  Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-16 23:47 -0700
    Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-04-17 12:26 +0000
      Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-04-17 15:34 +0000
        Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-04-17 16:41 +0000
      Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-17 10:21 -0700
        Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-17 20:00 +0200
          Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-17 11:34 -0700
            Re: ... Can anything be done about that? Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-04-25 14:06 +0200
              Re: ... Can anything be done about that? AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-25 07:28 -0700
                Re: ... Can anything be done about that? AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-25 12:13 -0700
                Re: ... Can anything be done about that? Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-04-26 16:21 +0200
                Re: ... Can anything be done about that? AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-27 06:36 -0700
          Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-17 15:49 -0400
            Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-18 00:06 +0200
              Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-18 09:09 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-18 20:20 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-19 12:21 -0700
              Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code mhx@iae.nl - 2013-04-21 00:13 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-21 12:55 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-04-21 22:37 +0200
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-22 11:09 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-04-24 21:09 +1000
            Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> - 2013-04-19 15:35 +0000
      Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-17 10:51 -0700
        Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-04-17 18:08 +0000
          Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-17 12:29 -0700
        Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-20 22:33 -0700
          Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-04-20 23:39 -0700
            Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-20 21:07 -1000
              Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-22 19:13 +0200
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-04-26 14:57 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-27 00:52 +0200
            Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-04-21 19:14 +1000
              Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-21 05:09 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-04-21 22:53 +1000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-21 15:35 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-21 16:54 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-04-22 15:39 +1000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-22 10:40 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-22 04:27 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-04-22 05:51 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-04-22 08:55 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-22 15:32 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-04-22 07:27 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-22 11:28 -0500
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-23 12:03 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-04-23 23:46 -0700
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-24 12:16 +0000
                Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-24 06:08 -0700
            Re: i finally get the messes caused by re using code marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2013-04-21 19:28 +1000

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