Re: The Secret of a Successful Programming Language?

From	Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: The Secret of a Successful Programming Language?
Date	2012-07-20 00:39 -0700
Organization	http://groups.google.com
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Hi Hugh,

Something has happened to your last post - the original text seems to
have got copied twice, so I snipped it all.

> Most people in those days just used Turbo C (or some other C or Pascal
>compiler) with the Small memory model. In this case, you get 64K of
>data and 64K of code for your application (the compiler and symbol
>table are stored elsewhere during compilation), and your program is
>fast because you are using Near addressing for everything (no segment/
>offset Far pointers).

I originally asked :
Do you mean that polyForth failed to use the F86-style segmented
model, which limited it to 64K?
The F-86 model uses a segment register as the Forth Instruction
Pointer, so that Forth words must be aligned to a 16 byte paragraph.
Can I assume that you mean that polyForth should have used separate
64K code and 64K data spaces?

>There is no *reason* for Forth Inc. to cram both application and
>compiler into a single 64K segment as they did in PolyForth.
One reason is to avoid having two sets of memory access words.

>There is
>no benefit whatsoever. The only *reason* is that nobody at Forth Inc.
>knew 8088 assembly language.
This statement is absurd in so many ways that it makes it very
difficult for anyone reading this thread to take anything you say
seriously.
1) I know many people who have worked at Forth,Inc., and all of them
knew about the 8086 and its segmented architecture
2) No one can know that *nobody* at Forth Inc. knew this
3) There are pros and cons with any architecture, so to say there is
"no benefit whatsoever" is wrong

It is very difficult to discuss these ideas if you smother any
sensible comments you make in outrageous opinions and speculation.

>>This is like colorForth's Just-In-Time (JIT)
>> compilation technique, and allows programs to be as large as your disk
>> drive can hold.
>I wouldn't consider the use of binary overlays to be like Just-In-Time
>(JIT) compilation technique.
I agree - JIT is not the same as binary overlays, but I said
"colorForth's Just-In-Time (JIT) compilation technique".
Perhaps we need a new name for this, to avoid confusion - how about
CJIT?
>lol
Is it just me, or the use of "lol" in this context slightly offensive?
I mean this as a serious question - I'm not sure how to interpret
it :-)

With CJIT the original source (as typed by the programmer) is
converted on-the-fly into pre-parsed source. This pre-parsed source is
then "compiled" when needed.
I put "compiled" in quotes because this is not the same as normal
compilation from text source - its much simpler and faster.
With Binary Overlays the original source is compiled into a binary
image which is then used to overwrite part of the Forth system
dictionary.

The main difference between these two techniques is that CJIT does not
need to be decompiled to be edited.

Best regards,
Howerd

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