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Groups > comp.lang.c > #127898
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Future of C |
| Date | 2018-03-15 16:05 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lnzi395498.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <08f373de-3438-464d-a52b-77af9564b4bf@googlegroups.com> <lnbmfp6rnr.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <5c5db803-cf2f-4e80-965b-c4950403e362@googlegroups.com> <ln4llh6kku.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <d38b0c9d-25fb-41fd-b9f6-9b0468fd18fb@googlegroups.com> |
supercat@casperkitty.com writes:
> On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:27:41 PM UTC-5, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
>> I've already acknowledged that non-conforming implementations can be
>> useful. An implementation that doesn't support recursion at all is
>> non-conforming.
>
> Under the OPR, a low-quality but conforming implementation could bomb
> the stack in any circumstances where code might otherwise make a recursive
> call.
Yes. Do any implementations actually do that? If so, name one.
I suggest that the One Program Rule is intended to encourage useful
implementations, and that it has done that job successfully. Compiler
implementers typically try not to impose fixed limits (for example,
depth of parenthesized expressions is limited by memory available during
parsing, not by the size of a fixed table in the compiler), and
conformance to the One Program Rule falls out as a consequence of that
design. See the footnote under 5.2.1.4: "Implementations should avoid
imposing fixed translation limits whenever possible."
>> >> > C74 was designed for certain kinds of machines. On such machines, the
>> >> > value of supporting recursion will exceed the cost.
[snip]
I misread your original statement, which I now see was correct.
I somehow managed to reverse the meaning in my head. I apologize
for the confusion.
>> >> > A language which is
>> >> > similar to C74 but lacks recursion may be useful for many purposes on
>> >> > machines for which the cost of supporting recursion would exceed the
>> >> > value.
>> >>
>> >> Sure, not all implementations have to be conforming. If a
>> >> non-conforming implementation is useful, that's great. No 64-bit
>> >> integers, no recursion, no floating-point, whatever.
>> >
>> > Presently, the Standard does not require that implementations be capable
>> > of usefully processing any programs [an implementation's One Program could
>> > be contrived and useless].
>>
>> Yes, yes, we know.
>
> Why are you so dismissive of the idea of closing the OPR loophole and
> having the Standard offer unequivocal behavioral guarantees?
For one thing, because you bring it up, seemingly at every opportunity,
and it's gotten boring. And because I don't believe it's either
practical or necessary. The "OPR loophole" is not a problem in practice.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar
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Re: Future of C "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 22:48 +0800
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Re: Future of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-03-08 15:02 +0000
Re: Future of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 07:32 -0800
Re: Future of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-03-08 16:41 +0000
Re: Future of C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-08 17:02 +0000
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 01:54 -0700
Re: Future of C Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-03-08 11:55 -0400
Re: Future of C "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-03-08 12:15 -0800
Re: Future of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2018-03-12 11:34 +0100
Re: Future of C "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-03-12 13:17 -0700
Re: Future of C GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-03-10 18:00 +0100
Re: Future of C Real Troll <Real.Troll@Trolls.com> - 2018-03-10 17:25 -0400
Re: Future of C GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 00:03 +0100
Re: Future of C David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-10 16:52 -0800
Re: Future of C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-10 23:41 -0600
Re: Future of C GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 16:15 +0100
Re: Future of C David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 14:31 -0700
Re: Future of C Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 21:50 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-11 15:02 -0700
Re: Future of C David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 17:48 -0700
Re: Future of C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-03-12 22:25 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 16:18 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-12 16:24 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-12 23:55 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 17:14 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-12 18:29 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-13 07:58 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 17:05 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-13 09:38 -0700
Re: Future of C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-03-13 21:51 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-13 15:06 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-14 12:22 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-12 18:24 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 01:40 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 17:11 +0100
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 17:06 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-13 09:38 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 16:58 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 17:01 -0700
Re: Future of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 12:25 +1300
Re: Future of C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-03-13 10:19 +0100
Re: Future of C jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-03-13 07:45 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 16:15 +0000
Re: Future of C jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-03-13 10:20 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 17:45 +0000
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-13 11:51 -0700
Re: Future of C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-03-13 21:12 +0100
Re: Future of C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-03-17 10:11 -0700
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-18 05:21 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 17:16 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 18:05 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 21:28 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-13 13:39 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 21:57 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-13 14:26 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-14 12:23 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 21:22 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-14 13:02 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 08:48 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-14 17:02 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-14 17:09 +0000
Re: Future of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 10:18 -0700
Re: Future of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-03-14 20:04 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-14 21:46 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-14 14:03 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 09:22 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 14:55 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 09:36 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 07:55 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-16 00:19 +0100
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-15 13:53 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 11:37 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-14 12:12 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 13:04 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-14 13:37 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 14:16 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-14 15:27 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 15:50 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-14 17:09 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-14 20:18 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 10:25 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 11:27 -0700
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-15 19:42 +0000
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 22:03 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 12:54 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 14:31 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 15:27 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 15:47 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 16:05 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-16 08:19 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-16 10:23 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-16 17:21 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-16 18:37 -0700
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-16 21:25 -0700
Re: Future of C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-03-20 11:46 +0100
Re: Future of C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-03-17 10:50 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-19 14:00 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-19 14:48 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-19 15:21 -0700
Re: Future of C "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-03-19 21:47 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 11:12 +0100
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 03:28 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 10:57 +0100
Re: Future of C William Ahern <william@25thandClement.com> - 2018-03-15 04:06 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 13:35 +0100
Re: Future of C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 05:47 -0700
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 08:25 -0700
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-15 16:14 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 09:56 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 10:45 -0700
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-15 18:15 +0000
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 11:22 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 12:38 -0700
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-15 20:46 +0000
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 15:14 -0700
Re: Future of C William Ahern <william@25thandClement.com> - 2018-03-15 22:56 -0700
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-16 00:39 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-19 11:35 +0100
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 03:46 -0700
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 10:35 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-16 00:36 +0100
Re: Future of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-15 10:40 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-16 00:26 +0100
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 10:36 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-15 14:43 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 16:03 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-15 09:46 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 09:45 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-14 17:35 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-15 11:25 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-15 14:57 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-16 00:45 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-16 00:34 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-16 09:29 +0100
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-16 01:42 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-16 11:40 +0000
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-16 05:03 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-19 13:49 +0100
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 06:55 -0700
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-19 14:37 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-19 22:23 +0100
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-19 13:28 -0700
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-19 23:39 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-19 23:47 +0000
Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-20 00:59 +0100
Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-20 00:20 +0000
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Re: Future of C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-20 14:09 +0100
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Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-13 14:24 -0700
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Re: Future of C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-13 22:25 +0000
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Re: Future of C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 12:55 -0800
Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 11:25 -0800
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Re: Future of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 13:20 -0800
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Re: Future of C John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 14:36 -0800
Re: Future of C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 17:41 -0800
Re: Future of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2018-03-09 03:15 +0100
Re: Future of C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2018-03-09 12:58 +0800
Re: Future of C Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2018-03-08 18:56 -0600
Re: Future of C GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-03-10 18:20 +0100
Re: Future of C "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 22:59 +0800
[OT] C vs World Trade Center 9/11 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 23:11 +0800
Re: Future of C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-12 17:34 +0000
Re: Future of C GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-03-12 19:33 +0100
Re: Future of C Davs <johndemeert0@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 17:48 -0700
Re: Future of C Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-03-13 20:54 +0100
Re: Future of C cprime.twitter@gmail.com - 2018-03-13 13:50 -0700
Re: Future of C "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-03-15 22:05 -0700
Re: Future of C Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-03-16 19:07 +0100
Re: Future of C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 15:41 -0700
Re: Future of C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 16:10 -0700
Re: Future of C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 16:29 -0700
Re: Future of C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 08:17 -0700
Re: Future of C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 08:38 -0700
Re: Future of C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 03:54 -0700
Re: Future of C Marcus Johnson <bumblebritches57@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 03:37 -0700
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