Re: how cast works?

From	Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: how cast works?
Date	2024-08-09 17:12 -0700
Organization	None to speak of
Message-ID	<87bk215j80.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <v94pji$m1ib$1@dont-email.me> <v95lb7$26koh$1@dont-email.me> <v96000$3fvsp$2@dont-email.me> <87v8095pwx.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v968un$7kfh$1@dont-email.me>

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Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 09/08/2024 22:47, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> I might also ask you not to pretend you don't know what is meant by
> 'implicit cast'. Or worse, pretending that other people might be
> confused.

Of course I understand exactly what you mean by "implicit cast".  You
mean "implicit conversion".  A phrase can be both clear and incorrect.
If you used the phrase "male cow" I would assume you mean "bull" and/or
"steer".

> I'm sure most of those won't have gone anywhere near the standard, so
> they won't be aware that in the 700 pages of N1570.PDF, 'explicit
> cast' occurs all of once, while 'implicit cast' occurs one time less
> often, which appears to be the sole reason for have a go at anyone who
> commits the sin of using that expression.

Nobody has accused you of any "sin".  Don't exaggerate.

I have pointed out that you are misusing a word that has a clear
definition, and that using the correct term "implicit conversion" would
be at least as clear and would cost you nothing.  (Compare the extra 6
letters to the volume of text you've emitted arguing about it.)

>> [...]
>>> Here it uses the term 'explicit cast'. Why is that; isn't the term
>>> 'cast' unambiguous without needing to say 'explicit'?
>> It's redundant.
>
> OK. Does that mean we're allowed to use redundant terms too?

Nobody said you aren't.

[...]

> You've snipped my quote from H.2.4p5 where it says:
>
>   ... conversions (casts) ...

That wording does not appear in more recent drafts.

[...]

>> Explain why using the word "cast" incorrectly is better than using it
>> correctly.  Explain why you can't just refer to explicit and implicit
>> conversions.  Do you have a motivation other than being annoying?
>
> 'Cast' is shorter, and more directly is associated with conversions to
> do with types.
> 
> In my compiler for example, '*conv*' is used in many different
> contexts (eg. case conversion). '*cast*' is only used in two
> functions, both to do with C type conversions.
>
> But I also use both terms just to mix it up.
>
>>> I remember people here getting castigated for using the term 'type
>>> cast'. And yet, in H.2.4p1:
>>>
>>> "The LIA−1 type conversions are the following type casts:"
>> That wording is no longer there in more recent editions.  Annex H
>> refers to LIA-1 (Language Independent Arithmetic), ISO/IEC 10967–1;
>> perhaps that standard use the term "type casts".
>
> My point is that even the professionals who write such documents get
> it 'wrong', according to you.

Yes, and unlike you, they willingly correct their errors.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 08:28 -0300
  Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 08:33 -0300
    Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 13:13 -0700
    Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:43 -0700
      Re: how cast works? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-12 11:51 +0100
        Challenge/exercise problem - signum() function Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-12 08:17 -0700
          Re: Challenge/exercise problem - signum() function Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-08-12 16:07 +0000
            Re: Challenge/exercise problem - signum() function Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-12 09:57 -0700
  Re: how cast works? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2024-08-07 20:00 +0000
    Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 13:26 -0700
    Re: how cast works? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 23:00 +0000
    Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 08:14 -0300
      Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-08 14:23 +0100
        Re: how cast works? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-08 19:32 +0300
          Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 14:11 -0300
          Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-08 18:29 +0100
            Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 14:50 -0300
              Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 14:57 -0300
              Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-08 19:01 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 15:13 -0300
              Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 12:29 -0700
            Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-08 19:58 +0200
              Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-08 20:09 +0100
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 00:32 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 16:14 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 02:47 +0000
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 22:55 -0700
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 02:08 -0400
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 18:16 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 12:18 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:07 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 20:14 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 01:56 +0100
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 19:08 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-10 11:03 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 02:45 +0000
      Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 12:42 -0700
        Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 17:34 -0300
          Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-08 22:41 +0100
            Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 16:17 -0700
              Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 11:04 +0100
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 19:12 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-12 15:36 +0100
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 13:57 -0400
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 21:59 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 14:47 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-10 00:32 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 17:12 -0700
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 18:29 -0400
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-13 11:18 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-13 11:34 +0100
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-13 07:51 -0400
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-13 14:01 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-13 12:46 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-13 21:51 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-13 16:46 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-14 00:56 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-18 03:37 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 14:29 -0700
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 18:35 -0400
                Re: how cast works? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-08-09 21:30 +0000
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 14:57 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-08-09 23:14 +0000
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 16:58 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-08-10 00:06 +0000
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 17:27 -0700
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 20:31 -0400
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-10 01:11 +0100
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-13 11:23 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:32 -0700
                Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-09 18:35 -0400
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:27 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 12:23 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 21:31 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 13:49 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 22:01 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-12 00:33 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-12 12:21 +0100
              Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:46 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-12 02:00 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 20:23 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 20:37 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 21:33 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-08-12 16:57 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-12 10:04 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-12 13:35 -0700
            Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 07:57 -0300
              Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-09 16:25 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 12:06 -0700
              Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 19:20 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 15:54 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 16:05 -0300
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 21:43 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 13:28 -0700
                Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 22:01 +0200
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-10 11:17 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-10 10:15 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-10 17:14 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-10 20:01 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-10 17:10 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 09:23 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-11 13:30 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 14:16 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 13:38 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-08-12 12:24 +0100
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 13:26 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 18:01 -0300
                Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 14:53 -0700
              Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 12:03 -0700
                Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 16:22 -0300
          Re: how cast works? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-08-09 00:36 +0200
    Re: how cast works? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2024-08-08 14:08 +0000
    Re: how cast works? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 02:42 +0000
  Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 13:08 -0700
    Re: how cast works? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 08:35 -0300
      Re: how cast works? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 12:39 -0700
      Re: how cast works? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-08-08 18:40 -0400
        Re: how cast works? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-08-11 17:15 -0700
    Is there an audio book version (Was: how cast works?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-08-08 16:19 +0000
  Re: how cast works? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 23:03 +0000

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