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Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks"

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From Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks"
Date Thu, 14 Mar 2024 15:39:22 -0700
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Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 22:58:10 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 11:11:03 +0200, Michael S wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 01:54:46 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Discord did some benchmarking of its back-end servers, which had
>>>> been using Go, and decided that switching to Rust offered better
>>>> performance.
>>>
>>> - for big and complex real-world back-end processing, writing
>>> working solution in go will take 5 time less man hours than
>>> writing it in Rust
>>
>> Nevertheless, they found the switch to Rust worthwhile.
>
> I read a little more about it.
> https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-switching-from-go-to-rust
>
> Summary: performance of one of Discord's most heavy-duty servers
> suffered from weakness in implementation of Go garbage collector.
> [...]
>
> I have few questions about the story, most important one is
> whether the weakness of this sort is specific to GC of Go, due
> to its relative immaturity or more general and applies equally
> to most mature GCs on the market, i.e. J2EE and .NET.

After reading the article, it seems clear that the design of the
GC used in Go is not a good fit to the Discord server workload.
That is not to say that Go's GC would be a bad fit for other
workloads, only that it's not a good choice for the Discord
server.  Also it seems clear that other approaches to GC design
(meant in the sense of already having been thought of and tried)
would be just fine for the Discord server.  Of course whether
such schemes would be a good fit for the Go environment is
a separate question (and one about which I have nothing to
offer since I know very little about Go).

> Another question is whether the problem is specific to GC-style
> of automatic memory management (AMM) or applies, at least to
> some degree, to other forms of AMM, most importantly, to AMMs
> based on Reference Counting used by Swift and also popular in
> C++.

It's very hard to make a blanket statement that applies to all
the different approaches to garbage collection, or to other
automatic memory management schemes (with reference counting as a
specific example), in a general way.  My experience with garbage
collected environments is that they are perfectly usable both for
long-term use and for interactive use.  Reference counting too:
typically RC gives a smoother feel, but that comes at a cost,
because RC does not, by itself, reclaim circular structures.
That means that either, one, code must be written to break the
circularity of such structures (so memory management is not fully
automated);  or two, periodically some sort of more general GC
method must be invoked to reclaim them;  or three, eventually
more and more memory is used to where the application must be
rebooted (like the memory usage patterns of some popular web
browsers).  The question is what kind of workloads need to be
supported - some schemes are good for typical interactive, but
short-term, applications, other schemes are better for the sort
of long-term server processes like the Discord example.  The
space of already existing techniques for doing GC is pretty
large - if a particular kind of workload needs to be supported,
there is a very good chance that an appropriate GC scheme can
be found without much difficulty.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as a fully automatic memory
management system.  Even full garbage collection sometimes needs
help from the programmer so all memory is eventually reclaimed.
(If you're feeling brave try doing a web search for "ephemeron".)
The point of all AMM schemes is not to reduce the amount of
programmer effort to zero but simply to greatly reduce it (and
hopefully reduce it to zero in many of the most common cases).
But for complicated programs it's almost inevitable that some
programmer-written code needs to be included to help whatever
automated mechanisms are used.

> Of course, I don't expected that my questions will be answered
> fully on comp.lang.c, but if some knowledgeable posters will try
> to answer I would appreciate.

The questions presented were somewhat general, and so the answers
given are also rather general.  In spite of that I hope you found
what you're looking for.

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"White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-02 17:13 -0600
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 00:05 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:42 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" John McCue <jmccue@neutron.jmcunx.com> - 2024-03-03 02:10 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-03 02:23 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-03 11:11 -0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 03:30 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 08:54 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 20:11 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:49 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 22:11 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:27 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-07 06:46 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 08:52 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-03 11:10 +0200
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-03 12:01 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:03 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-03 18:18 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-03 21:23 +0100
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:01 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 09:44 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:38 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:46 -0800
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:36 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:41 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 10:01 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 12:51 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 11:43 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:18 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 13:23 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-09 13:25 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 14:16 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 14:18 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:31 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-04 17:05 +0100
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 18:24 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-05 02:46 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:23 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 20:10 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:06 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:29 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 15:53 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-04 01:00 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:44 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:07 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-05 00:59 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 01:54 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 22:18 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:06 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 23:10 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-05 11:11 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 22:58 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-06 14:02 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 12:28 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-07 00:00 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-07 11:35 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-07 13:44 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-07 16:36 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 17:18 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-03-08 14:41 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 15:07 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-08 15:15 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 17:55 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 10:08 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-29 00:05 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 17:14 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-29 01:58 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 19:01 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-04-29 04:28 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 13:40 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" paavo512 <paavo@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-04-29 12:45 +0300
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 13:42 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-04-30 16:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 16:35 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 08:25 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-08 12:57 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 15:32 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-08 16:57 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-29 00:02 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2024-04-29 08:55 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:45 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2024-03-06 14:30 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 18:00 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 02:37 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 20:36 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:44 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-14 15:39 -0700
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-03-04 00:44 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:57 -0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:48 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-03 15:31 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:09 -0600
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:07 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-05 14:56 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 22:14 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:15 -0800
    [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-04 16:39 +0000
      Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-04 17:21 +0000
      Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-07 06:48 +0000
        Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 23:01 -0800
          Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-07 08:15 +0000
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 08:23 +0000
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-07 10:20 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 06:23 +0000
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 06:21 +0000
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-07 14:34 +0000
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-07 07:58 -0800
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-03-07 18:09 +0000
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-07 14:39 -0500
        Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-07 11:23 +0000
          Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 06:27 +0000
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 23:27 -0800
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 12:21 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-03-09 15:02 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 23:11 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2024-03-21 14:47 +0300
            Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-09 10:40 +0000
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-09 11:56 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-10 14:03 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-10 19:07 +0000
              Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 12:25 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-09 13:11 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-09 23:13 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-10 00:13 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-10 10:17 +0200
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-10 13:35 +0000
                Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig. Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-10 17:15 +0000
              avoiding strdup() (was: Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-03-09 13:19 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 15:25 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 16:37 -0800
                Re: avoiding strdup() Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-10 10:11 +0200
                Re: avoiding strdup() Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-10 13:38 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-10 17:12 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-10 18:47 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-10 19:20 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 16:23 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-11 18:50 +0200
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-11 17:05 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-11 19:35 +0200
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-11 18:06 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-11 20:29 +0200
                Re: avoiding strdup() Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 19:57 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 10:13 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-11 17:58 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 11:28 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-11 17:58 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 11:30 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 19:45 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 13:11 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-11 17:00 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-11 17:52 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-11 18:10 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-11 19:11 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 12:34 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 01:12 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 18:20 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 15:40 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 15:31 -0700
                Re: avoiding strdup() Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-13 09:50 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-12 15:55 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 22:44 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-12 23:50 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-13 03:46 -0400
                Re: avoiding strdup() David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-13 16:08 +0100
                Re: avoiding strdup() Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-04-29 00:53 +0000
                Re: avoiding strdup() i@fuzy.me - 2024-04-29 22:38 +0800
                Re: avoiding strdup() steve <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 23:36 -0400
                Re: avoiding strdup() Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-10 10:02 +0000
        Re: [OT] UTF-8 sig.  Was: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-03-07 17:52 +0042
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:02 -0600
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2024-03-03 23:59 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:06 -0800
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 05:43 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:26 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:28 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:29 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 02:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 19:40 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 04:43 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 21:23 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:07 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:48 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-06 00:25 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 22:01 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:42 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-07 16:21 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-05 03:32 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 19:42 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:03 -0600
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:08 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:27 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:01 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-05 21:24 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:44 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:11 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:34 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:31 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 13:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-06 16:18 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 14:38 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 19:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-06 14:14 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 21:13 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 21:36 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-12 00:07 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 20:05 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-06 19:27 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 03:06 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-07 14:28 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 07:42 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:14 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:58 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:02 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:34 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:13 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:43 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 09:01 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-12 00:03 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:54 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 15:41 +0100
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-04 15:28 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 18:51 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:11 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:31 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-06 00:25 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:40 +0100
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Derek <derek-nospam@shape-of-code.com> - 2024-03-04 12:18 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:52 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 21:51 +0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 15:43 +0800
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 15:54 -0300
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 16:00 -0300

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