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Groups > comp.arch > #109362 > unrolled thread
| Started by | mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-10-01 19:02 +0000 |
| Last post | 2024-10-03 00:30 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 456 — 31 participants |
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Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 19:02 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-01 20:00 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 21:04 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 23:38 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 00:31 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 01:26 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-03 06:28 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-03 09:21 +0200
Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-03 09:39 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-03 14:34 +0200
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:17 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-03 15:33 -1000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-04 11:23 +0200
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-04 17:30 +0000
Re: Byte ordering BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 14:05 -0500
Re: Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-04 23:06 +0000
Re: Byte ordering BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 19:44 -0500
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:35 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:34 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:31 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 17:52 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-05 18:11 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 22:53 +0300
Re: Byte ordering Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-06 22:07 +0200
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 21:53 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:29 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 16:16 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 19:57 +0300
Re: Byte ordering Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-07 16:00 -0400
Re: Byte ordering Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-08 00:11 +0300
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 21:46 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-08 10:40 +0200
Re: Byte ordering David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-06 11:58 +0200
Re: Byte ordering anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-06 13:04 +0000
Re: Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-10-06 16:34 +0100
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:32 +0000
Re: Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-10-08 22:28 +0100
Re: Byte ordering EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-10-09 13:37 -0400
VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-09 16:01 -0400
Re: VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-09 23:16 +0000
Re: VMS/NT memory management EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-10-11 15:21 -0400
Re: VMS/NT memory management scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-12 15:20 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-14 23:55 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 11:16 +0300
Re: Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-10-15 18:40 +0100
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-18 05:56 +0000
Re: Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-10-15 18:40 +0100
Re: Byte ordering scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-15 18:57 +0000
Re: Byte ordering George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-15 19:51 -0400
Re: Byte ordering Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-16 07:36 +0200
Re: Byte ordering David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-16 09:17 +0200
Re: Byte ordering George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-16 21:19 -0400
Re: Byte ordering David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-17 14:39 +0200
Re: clouds, not Byte ordering John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-17 02:35 +0000
Re: clouds, not Byte ordering David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-17 14:41 +0200
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-18 05:57 +0000
Re: Byte ordering "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-10-16 11:34 -0400
Re: Microkernels & Capabilities (was Re: Byte ordering) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-18 05:54 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-14 23:51 +0000
Re: Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-15 00:17 +0000
80286 protected mode anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-07 07:33 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-07 12:42 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-07 15:17 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 17:45 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 21:55 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-08 10:44 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 16:32 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 20:03 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 17:40 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 21:52 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-07 23:13 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-08 06:16 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-08 20:53 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-09 08:48 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-14 23:46 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-08 07:28 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2024-10-08 07:28 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-09 10:24 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-09 16:28 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-09 16:42 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-09 22:20 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-10-09 14:52 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-10 00:33 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 08:30 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 08:24 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-11 08:15 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-15 17:26 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-15 21:55 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-15 22:05 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-16 00:24 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-16 01:08 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-16 02:48 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-16 03:09 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-17 19:49 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-17 21:03 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-20 07:08 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-20 15:49 -0400
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-21 18:19 -0700
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-22 17:28 -0400
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-16 10:04 +0200
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-10-16 15:07 -0400
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-16 19:41 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-17 16:13 +0200
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-20 07:07 +0000
Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-10-20 12:14 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-16 15:38 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-16 23:06 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-17 03:16 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-17 16:16 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-16 20:00 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-16 22:18 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-17 01:18 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-17 00:40 -0700
Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-17 18:31 +0000
Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-17 19:01 +0000
Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-17 19:32 +0000
Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-17 21:01 +0000
Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-18 07:12 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-17 02:48 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-16 09:38 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-16 23:32 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-17 16:25 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-17 03:17 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-16 09:21 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-16 11:18 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-16 19:57 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-21 14:04 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-18 17:38 +0100
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-18 21:45 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-20 21:51 +0100
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-21 08:58 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-21 09:21 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-21 18:32 -0700
Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-22 08:27 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-23 07:25 -0700
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-23 18:11 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-23 18:27 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-23 21:12 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 20:45 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-23 21:11 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-23 21:01 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-24 07:39 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-24 18:32 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-28 11:39 +0100
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-28 16:30 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-10-28 10:12 -0700
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-28 18:14 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-10-28 15:24 -0400
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-29 06:33 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-29 08:07 +0100
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-29 19:57 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-29 20:21 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-29 21:27 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-29 20:30 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-10-29 14:29 -0400
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-29 14:19 -0400
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-23 21:09 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-24 06:55 +0000
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-24 10:00 +0200
Re: Retirement hobby (was Re: 80286 protected mode) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-24 16:34 +0000
Re: portable malloc Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-21 23:17 +0000
Re: portable malloc mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-21 23:52 +0000
Re: portable malloc Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 01:09 +0000
Re: portable malloc George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-10-22 17:26 -0400
Re: portable malloc Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 20:42 +0000
Re: portable malloc Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:04 +0000
Re: portable malloc David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2024-10-27 17:55 -0500
Re: tiny portable malloc John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-27 23:58 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-09 18:10 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-09 22:22 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-09 21:37 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 08:31 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-10 18:38 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 21:21 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-10 20:00 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 23:54 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-10 21:03 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 16:19 -0500
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-11 13:37 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-11 15:13 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-11 16:54 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 12:00 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-13 14:10 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-10 21:30 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-11 14:10 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-11 18:55 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-12 00:02 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-11 23:32 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-12 17:16 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Bernd Linsel <bl1-thispartdoesnotbelonghere@gmx.com> - 2024-10-12 19:26 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-13 12:57 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 19:36 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-13 19:43 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 23:01 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-12 18:33 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-10-13 10:31 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 12:26 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-10-13 13:33 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2024-10-13 15:32 -0500
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-13 13:58 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-12 05:06 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2024-10-12 12:36 -0500
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-12 18:17 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-12 18:37 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 01:25 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-10-12 23:09 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-12 18:32 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-13 10:56 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-10-13 13:32 -0400
Re: 80286 protected mode Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-13 21:21 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-14 15:19 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-10-14 16:40 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-14 17:19 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-14 19:08 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-15 10:53 +0200
memcpy and friend (was: 80286 protected mode) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 13:12 +0300
Re: memcpy and friend (was: 80286 protected mode) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-15 13:20 +0200
Re: memcpy and friend (was: 80286 protected mode) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 14:55 +0300
Re: memcpy and friend (was: 80286 protected mode) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-15 14:03 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-18 06:00 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-18 05:39 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-12 05:11 -0700
Re: 80286 protected mode anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-13 15:45 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-14 17:04 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-14 19:02 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-14 22:20 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-15 00:14 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 10:41 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-14 19:39 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-15 00:15 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-18 12:47 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-18 14:06 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-18 17:34 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-18 16:19 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-19 19:46 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-15 12:38 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 14:22 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-15 14:09 +0200
Re: 80286 protected mode Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 19:46 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-08 16:00 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-08 16:23 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-08 21:03 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-15 05:20 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-15 11:59 +0300
Re: 80286 protected mode Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-18 07:01 +0000
Re: Byte ordering antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-03 03:37 +0000
Re: Byte ordering anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-03 08:38 +0000
Re: Byte ordering scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-03 18:11 +0000
Re: Byte ordering antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-04 22:40 +0000
Re: Byte ordering Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-05 08:54 +0100
80286 protected mode (was: Byte ordering) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-05 11:10 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode (was: Byte ordering) Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-01-05 18:30 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:38 -0500
Re: 80286 protected mode antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-05 21:49 +0000
Re: 80286 protected mode George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-01-05 23:01 -0500
Segments (was: 80286 protected mode) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-06 08:24 +0000
Re: Segments (was: 80286 protected mode) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-06 14:41 +0200
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-06 16:05 +0100
Re: Segments anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-06 16:36 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-06 19:49 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-06 19:41 +0000
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-07 11:45 +0100
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-06 22:02 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-06 22:57 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-07 11:05 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-07 14:43 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-07 17:04 +0200
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-07 15:28 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-07 16:41 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-07 20:16 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-07 21:26 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-07 22:01 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-07 23:16 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-08 11:53 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-11 22:31 +0000
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-14 17:46 -0800
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-15 07:09 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-15 14:00 +0200
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-15 18:00 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-15 22:28 +0200
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-15 20:59 +0000
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 12:36 +0100
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-16 14:35 +0200
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 13:59 +0100
Re: Segments antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-16 16:46 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-16 18:12 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-16 18:30 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2025-01-18 10:59 +0200
Re: Stacks, was Segments John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-18 19:41 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-19 17:33 +0100
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-19 18:28 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-20 12:55 +0200
Re: Stacks, was Segments antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-20 11:12 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-20 22:05 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-21 01:25 +0200
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-21 00:17 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-21 06:21 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2025-01-21 10:36 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-21 17:49 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-02-03 14:09 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-03 21:13 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-03 21:23 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-03 22:47 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-03 23:11 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-05 12:11 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-05 14:55 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-05 23:36 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-06 11:41 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-06 17:13 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-06 13:51 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-02-06 12:06 -0800
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-06 16:53 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-07 02:53 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-02-09 15:45 -0500
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-09 21:03 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-07 02:39 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-07 13:57 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-07 18:25 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-07 20:32 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-08 22:19 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-10 20:18 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-10 23:40 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-11 14:04 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-11 20:19 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-11 20:49 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-11 23:29 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-12 00:34 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-13 16:42 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-13 18:12 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-13 21:48 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-13 22:23 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-14 19:13 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-14 19:51 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-14 21:50 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-15 15:31 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-15 23:28 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-16 19:56 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-02-11 09:30 -0800
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-11 18:19 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-02-06 20:49 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-05 21:31 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2025-01-19 23:37 +0200
Re: Stacks, was Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-20 09:00 +0100
Re: Stacks, was Segments Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-27 17:26 -0800
Re: Stacks, was Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-18 16:30 +0000
Re: Stacks, was Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-18 17:40 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-16 20:46 +0200
Re: Segments antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-16 20:34 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-16 21:02 +0000
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 22:16 +0100
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-16 21:40 +0000
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-17 10:20 +0100
Re: Segments "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-01-17 10:08 -0500
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-17 15:17 +0000
Re: Segments jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-01-19 18:49 +0000
Re: Segments antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-01-17 02:22 +0000
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 19:52 -0800
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-17 15:52 +0100
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-17 15:30 +0100
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-17 16:42 +0000
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-17 18:21 +0100
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-17 20:08 +0000
Re: Segments George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-01-21 20:30 -0500
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-22 02:19 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-22 14:58 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-22 17:45 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-22 20:00 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-22 22:25 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-22 22:44 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 01:39 +0200
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 01:00 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 11:52 +0200
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 17:41 +0200
Re: Segments EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-01-23 14:22 -0500
Re: Segments anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-23 08:14 +0000
Re: Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 12:23 +0200
Re: Segments anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-23 12:39 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 14:04 +0000
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 14:31 +0000
Re: Segments Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-27 17:18 -0800
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-23 14:02 -0800
Re: Segments George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-01-23 11:50 -0500
Re: Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 17:18 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-22 02:54 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-22 15:25 +0200
Re: stack sizes, Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-22 15:01 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 01:45 +0200
Re: stack sizes, Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 01:07 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-23 02:47 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 14:00 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-23 17:49 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-23 19:45 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-23 20:04 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-24 08:11 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-24 14:50 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-23 07:24 +0000
Re: stack sizes, Segments George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-01-22 20:28 -0500
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 11:43 +0100
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 13:42 -0800
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-15 22:39 +0000
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-16 10:11 +0100
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 13:11 +0100
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 13:10 -0800
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-16 22:23 +0100
Re: Segments Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-01-16 09:15 -0800
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-16 17:24 +0000
Re: Segments Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-01-16 09:55 -0800
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-16 18:23 +0000
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-16 20:22 +0100
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-16 19:14 +0000
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-16 20:12 +0100
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 15:18 -0800
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-16 23:39 +0000
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 17:04 -0800
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-17 02:10 +0000
Re: Segments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-17 16:15 +0100
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-17 18:02 +0100
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-17 10:55 -0800
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-17 19:27 +0000
Re: Segments Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-01-17 21:05 -0800
Re: Segments Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-01-20 12:29 -0800
Re: Segments Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-22 14:15 +0100
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-22 18:44 +0000
Re: Segments mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-06 23:41 +0000
Re: Segments Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-07 10:53 +0000
Re: Segments Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2025-01-11 13:59 -0800
Re: what's a segment, 80286 protected mode John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-06 18:58 +0000
Re: what's a segment, 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-06 19:45 +0000
Re: what's a segment, 80286 protected mode scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-06 19:48 +0000
Re: what's a segment, 80286 protected mode Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-01-06 17:28 -1000
Re: Byte ordering scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-05 15:20 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-05 02:56 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-05 03:55 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-01-05 15:15 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-01-05 15:23 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-01-05 17:51 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-05 19:40 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-01-05 20:01 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-05 20:46 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-05 20:55 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-01-05 22:01 +0100
Re: the 286, Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-01-06 00:35 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-01-06 03:02 +0000
Re: the 286, Byte ordering Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-06 15:19 +0200
Re: Byte ordering jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-01-05 14:48 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 18:50 +0300
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:33 +0000
Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-10-03 23:49 +0100
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-02 20:23 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2024-10-02 10:07 -0500
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 16:08 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2024-10-02 13:51 -0500
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-02 21:34 +0000
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2024-10-02 18:55 -0500
Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 00:30 +0000
Page 2 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 23 Next page →
| From | Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-05 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <vdruc9$rfsp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109450 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 17:30:07 GMT, Anton Ertl wrote: > >> The fact that the 386SX only appeared in 1988 also did not help. > > As a software guy, I liked the idea of the 386SX, and encouraged friends/ > colleagues to choose it over a 286. > > Of course, they wanted to compare price/performance, but I saw things in > terms of future software compatibility, and the sooner the move away from > braindead x86 segmentation towards a nice, flat, expansive, linear address > space, the better for everybody. > > Sometimes I felt like a voice crying in the wilderness ... Didn’t it take a decade for the 386 to get a 32 bit OS, by which time the early machines were long since in the garbage bin, making the extra cost a waste. The AMD 286 was faster and cheaper, better lifetime value for the money. You were a voice crying in the wilderness, because you were wrong. ;)
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-05 18:11 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <2024Oct5.201155@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #109461 |
Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> writes: >Didn’t it take a decade for the 386 to get a 32 bit OS 386/ix appeared in 1985, exactly 0 years after the 386. Xenix/386 and Windows/386 appeared in 1987. - anton -- 'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.' Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-05 22:53 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <20241005225335.00002fa4@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #109464 |
On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 18:11:55 GMT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote: > Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> writes: > >Didn’t it take a decade for the 386 to get a 32 bit OS > > 386/ix appeared in 1985, exactly 0 years after the 386. Xenix/386 and > Windows/386 appeared in 1987. > > - anton SunOS for i386 in 1988. Netware 3x in 1990. The later sold in very high volumes.
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| From | Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-06 22:07 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <vduqlg$1bocb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109466 |
Michael S wrote: > On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 18:11:55 GMT > anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote: > >> Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> writes: >>> Didn’t it take a decade for the 386 to get a 32 bit OS >> >> 386/ix appeared in 1985, exactly 0 years after the 386. Xenix/386 and >> Windows/386 appeared in 1987. >> >> - anton > > SunOS for i386 in 1988. > Netware 3x in 1990. > The later sold in very high volumes. It deserved to do so: For what it was doing (file/print service), it was by far the most efficient product I've even heard of! Drew Major managed to get the total latency of the "ack network interrupt, parse incoming packet, determine that it is a read request for which the client has the required access rights, locate the requested data somewhere in the memory cache, construct a response packet and hand it off to the network card" down to 300 clock cycles. Those clock cycles _might_ have been measured on a 486 with mostly single-cycle instructions, instead of the original 386 which needed 2+ clock cycles for lots of stuff. The point still stands, it was amazingly efficient. Terje -- - <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no> "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
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| From | Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-06 21:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <vdv0t0$1ckqf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109466 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 18:11:55 GMT > anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote: > >> Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> writes: >>> Didn’t it take a decade for the 386 to get a 32 bit OS >> >> 386/ix appeared in 1985, exactly 0 years after the 386. Xenix/386 and >> Windows/386 appeared in 1987. >> >> - anton > > SunOS for i386 in 1988. > Netware 3x in 1990. > The later sold in very high volumes. The first 32 bit windows was Windows 95, a full decade later. Windows 386 was 16 bit as was Windows 2.x. I do concede to being wrong about the unix ports.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 06:29 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <vdvv3o$1k931$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109497 |
On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 21:53:36 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: > The first 32 bit windows was Windows 95 ... Windows NT 3.1, 1993.
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| From | Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 16:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <ve11h0$1pbco$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109510 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 21:53:36 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: > >> The first 32 bit windows was Windows 95 ... > > Windows NT 3.1, 1993. So 8 years, that PC would still be in the trash can by then.
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 19:57 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <20241007195744.0000483e@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #109526 |
On Mon, 7 Oct 2024 16:16:32 -0000 (UTC) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 21:53:36 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: > > > >> The first 32 bit windows was Windows 95 ... > > > > Windows NT 3.1, 1993. > > So 8 years, that PC would still be > Wikipedia: Development of i386 technology began in 1982 under the internal name of P3.[4] The tape-out of the 80386 development was finalized in July 1985.[4] The 80386 was introduced as pre-production samples for software development workstations in October 1985.[5] Manufacturing of the chips in significant quantities commenced in June 1986. > in the trash can by then. Not every PC made in those years was crap. Some of them were quite reliable and lasted long.
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 16:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <jwvcykbbsaf.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> |
| In reply to | #109528 |
> Not every PC made in those years was crap. Some of them were quite
> reliable and lasted long.
But back then, Dennard scaling meant that an 8 year-old PC was so much
slower than a current PC that it was difficult to find people willing to
still use it.
Nowadays, for a large proportion of tasks, you can't really tell the
difference between a last-generation CPU and an 8 year-old CPU, so the
reliability is much more of a factor.
Stefan
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-08 00:11 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <20241008001131.00006e2a@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #109547 |
On Mon, 07 Oct 2024 16:00:38 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: > > Not every PC made in those years was crap. Some of them were quite > > reliable and lasted long. > > But back then, Dennard scaling meant that an 8 year-old PC was so much > slower than a current PC that it was difficult to find people willing > to still use it. > > Nowadays, for a large proportion of tasks, you can't really tell the > difference between a last-generation CPU and an 8 year-old CPU, so the > reliability is much more of a factor. > > > Stefan In March 1992 as a new employee I was given a PC based on 386SX. I don't remember if the clock was 16 MHz or 20 MHz, but no more than 20. 1.5 years later when I started to work at client's site for the most of my time, this PC was still my only desktop when I was coming back to office. High-end PC made in 1986, e.g. Compaq Deskpro 386, would be non-trivially faster than this cheap, but far from the cheapest, computer that I used daily 7.5 years later. Did it feel so slow that was difficult to use? No, for what I was doing it wasn't.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 21:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) |
| Message-ID | <ve1krk$1s0ug$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109528 |
On Mon, 7 Oct 2024 19:57:44 +0300, Michael S wrote: > The 80386 was introduced as pre-production samples for software > development workstations in October 1985.[5] Manufacturing of the chips > in significant quantities commenced in June 1986. And the first vendor to offer a Microsoft-compatible PC product based on that chip? Compaq, with its “Deskpro 386” that same year, I believe.
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| From | Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-08 10:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <ve2r59$24hio$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109555 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Mon, 7 Oct 2024 19:57:44 +0300, Michael S wrote: > >> The 80386 was introduced as pre-production samples for software >> development workstations in October 1985.[5] Manufacturing of the chips >> in significant quantities commenced in June 1986. > > And the first vendor to offer a Microsoft-compatible PC product based on > that chip? Compaq, with its “Deskpro 386” that same year, I believe. > I got one of those that fall, most impressive was the fact hhat you could order it with a 130 MB hard drive, an almost unheard of size at the time: Even though this was an expensive PC, it cost no more with that drive (i.e. the highest end version) than a Micropolis hard drive of the same size. I.e. the PC was effectively free. :-) Terje -- - <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no> "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-06 11:58 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <vdtmv9$16lu8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109432 |
On 04/10/2024 19:30, Anton Ertl wrote: > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: >> On 04/10/2024 00:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>> Compare this with the pain the x86 world went through, over a much longer >>> time, to move to 32-bit. >> >> The x86 started from 8-bit roots, and increased width over time, which >> is a very different path. > > Still, the question is why they did the 286 (released 1982) with its > protected mode instead of adding IA-32 to the architecture, maybe at > the start with a 386SX-like package and with real-mode only, or with > the MMU in a separate chip (like the 68020/68551). > I can only guess the obvious - it is what some big customer(s) were asking for. Maybe Intel didn't see the need for 32-bit computing in the markets they were targeting, or at least didn't see it as worth the cost. >> And much of the reason for it being a slow development is that the world >> was held back by MS's lack of progress in using new features. The 80386 >> was produced in 1986, but the MS world was firmly at 16-bit under it >> gained a bit of 32-bit features with Windows 95. (Windows NT was 32-bit >>from 1993, and Win32s was from around the same time, but these were >> relatively small in the market.) > > At that time the market was moving much slower than nowadays. Systems > with a 286 (and maybe even the 8088) were sold for a long time after > the 386 was introduced. E.g., the IBM PS/1 Model 2011 was released in > 1990 with a 10MHz 286, and the successor Model 2121 with a 386SX was > not introduced until 1992. I think it's hard to blame MS for > targeting the machines that were out there. It is fair enough to target the existing market, but they were also slow (IMHO) to take advantage of new opportunities in hardware, re-enforcing the situation. I think MS and their monopoly on markets caused a stagnation - lack of real competition meant lack of progress. > And looking at > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.1x>, Windows 2.1 in 1988 > already was available in a Windows/386 version (but the programs were > running in virtual 8086 mode, i.e., were still 16-bit programs). > > And it was not just MS who was going in that direction. MS and IBM > worked on OS/2, and despite ambitious goals IBM insisted that the > software had to run on a 286. > IBM were famous for poor (and perhaps cowardly) decisions at the time, and MS happily screwed them over again and again in regards to OS/2. It takes a special kind of bad management for a company of IBM's size to make PC's, and to make a PC OS, and yet that OS could not run on their own PC's. Later, once OS/2 /did/ run on IBM PC's, they would not sell computers with their own OS pre-installed - you had to first by the machine with the competitor's OS, then buy IBM's OS at retail prices, and install it yourself (from some 50-60 floppy disks, IIRC). > The fact that the 386SX only appeared in 1988 also did not help. > > - anton
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-06 13:04 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <2024Oct6.150415@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #109483 |
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: >On 04/10/2024 19:30, Anton Ertl wrote: >> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: >>> On 04/10/2024 00:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> Compare this with the pain the x86 world went through, over a much longer >>>> time, to move to 32-bit. >>> >>> The x86 started from 8-bit roots, and increased width over time, which >>> is a very different path. >> >> Still, the question is why they did the 286 (released 1982) with its >> protected mode instead of adding IA-32 to the architecture, maybe at >> the start with a 386SX-like package and with real-mode only, or with >> the MMU in a separate chip (like the 68020/68551). >> > >I can only guess the obvious - it is what some big customer(s) were >asking for. Maybe Intel didn't see the need for 32-bit computing in the >markets they were targeting, or at least didn't see it as worth the cost. Anyone could see the problems that the PDP-11 had with its 16-bit limitation. Intel saw it in the iAPX 432 starting in 1975. It is obvious that, as soon as memory grows beyond 64KB (and already the 8086 catered for that), the protected mode of the 80286 would be more of a hindrance than even the real mode of the 8086. I find it hard to believe that many customers would ask Intel for something the 80286 protected mode with segments limited to 64KB, and even if, that Intel would listen to them. This looks much more like an idee fixe to me that one or more of the 286 project leaders had, and all customer input was made to fit into this idea, or was ignored. Concerning the cost, ther 80286 has 134,000 transistors, compared to supposedly 68,000 for the 68000, and the 190,000 of the 68020. I am sure that Intel could have managed a 32-bit 8086 (maybe even with the nice addressing modes that the 386 has in 32-bit mode) with those 134,000 transistors if Motorola could build the 68000 with half of that. >It is fair enough to target the existing market, but they were also slow >(IMHO) to take advantage of new opportunities in hardware, re-enforcing >the situation. They introduced Windows/386 in 1987. >I think MS and their monopoly on markets caused a >stagnation - lack of real competition meant lack of progress. Monopoly? These were the times with lots of competition from different hardware and software manufacturers. Apple with the Apple II, Lisa and MacIntosh, Atari with their 8-bit line and ther Atari ST line, Commodore with their 8-bit line and their Amiga line, and, on the software side, Digital Research with CP/M(-86/68K) and GEM, and various Unix offerings, including Xenix. Were they all no real competition? Not in my book. It's just that Microsoft eventually won, maybe accidentially (as it happens in a winner-takes-all market). >IBM were famous for poor (and perhaps cowardly) decisions at the time, >and MS happily screwed them over again and again in regards to OS/2. Another interpretation is that MS went faithfully into OS/2, assigning not just their Xenix team to it (although according to Wikipedia the Xenix abandonment by MS was due to AT&T entering the Unix market) and reportedly also assigned the best MS-DOS developers to OS/2. They tried to stick to OS/2 for several years, but eventually were fed up with all the bad decisions coming from IBM, and bowed out. - anton -- 'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.' Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>
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| From | jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-06 16:34 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <memo.20241006163428.19028W@jgd.cix.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #109490 |
In article <2024Oct6.150415@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote: > I find it hard to believe that many customers would ask Intel > for something the 80286 protected mode with segments limited > to 64KB, and even if, that Intel would listen to them. This > looks much more like an idee fixe to me that one or more of > the 286 project leaders had, and all customer input was made > to fit into this idea, or was ignored. Either half-remembered from older architectures, or re-invented and considered viable a decade after the original inventors had learned better. > Another interpretation is that MS went faithfully into OS/2, > assigning not just their Xenix team to it (although according > to Wikipedia the Xenix abandonment by MS was due to AT&T > entering the Unix market) and reportedly also assigned the best > MS-DOS developers to OS/2. They tried to stick to OS/2 for > several years, but eventually were fed up with all the bad > decisions coming from IBM, and bowed out. It's known that they split the work with IBM, such the MS would do a redesigned OS/2 that was intended to be version 3.0, while IBM concentrated on 2.0. A friend of mine was working on OS/2 within IBM at the time, until he left with serious stress and depression: the people management was not good. Then MS switched emphasis, so that the Windows API was the primary personality of OS/2 3.0, and renamed it Windows NT. That also had an OS/2 personality at the start, along with a POSIX personality. John
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-07 06:32 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <vdvvae$1k931$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #109494 |
On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 16:34 +0100 (BST), John Dallman wrote: > Then MS switched emphasis, so that the Windows API was the primary > personality of OS/2 3.0, and renamed it Windows NT. Dave Cutler came from DEC (where he was one of the resident Unix-haters) to mastermind the Windows NT project in 1988. When did the OS/2→NT pivot take place? > That also had an OS/2 personality at the start, along with a POSIX > personality. Funny, you’d think they would use that same “personality” system to implement WSL1, the Linux-emulation layer. But they didn’t. I think the whole “personality” concept, along with the supposed portability to non-x86 architectures, had just bit-rotted away by that point.
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| From | jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-08 22:28 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <memo.20241008222803.19028a@jgd.cix.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #109511 |
In article <vdvvae$1k931$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro) wrote: > Dave Cutler came from DEC (where he was one of the resident > Unix-haters) to mastermind the Windows NT project in 1988. When did > the OS/2-NT pivot take place? 1990, after the release of Windows 3.0, which was an immediate commercial success. It was the first version that you could get serious work out of. It's been compared to a camel: a vicious brute at times, but capable of doing a lot of carrying. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup> > Funny, you'd think they would use that same _personality_ system to > implement WSL1, the Linux-emulation layer. But they didn't. They were called subsystems in Windows NT, and ran on top of the NT kernel. The POSIX one came first, and was very limited, followed by the Interix one that was called Windows Services for Unix. Programs for both of these were in PE-COFF format, not ELF. There was also the OS/2 subsystem, but it only ran text-mode programs. The POSIX subsystem was there to meet US government purchasing requirements, not to be used for anything serious. I can't imagine Dave Cutler was keen on it. WSL1 seems to have been something odd: rather than a single subsystem, a bunch of mini-subsystems. However, VMS/NT kernels just have different assumptions about programs from Unix-style kernels, so they went to lightweight virtualisation in WSL2. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux#History> The same problem seems to have messed up all the attempts to provide good Unix emulation on VMS. It's notable that MICA started out trying to provide both VMS and Unix APIs, but this was dropped in favour of a separate Unix OS before MICA was cancelled. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_MICA#Design_goals> > I think the whole _personality_ concept, along with the supposed > portability to non-x86 architectures, had just bit-rotted away by > that point. Some combination of that, Microsoft confidence that "of course we can do something better now!" - they are very prone to overconfidence - and the terrible tendency of programmers to ignore the details of the old code. John
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| From | EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-09 13:37 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Byte ordering |
| Message-ID | <nczNO.129339$WtV9.7429@fx10.iad> |
| In reply to | #109580 |
John Dallman wrote: > In article <vdvvae$1k931$2@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence > D'Oliveiro) wrote: > >> Dave Cutler came from DEC (where he was one of the resident >> Unix-haters) to mastermind the Windows NT project in 1988. When did >> the OS/2-NT pivot take place? > > 1990, after the release of Windows 3.0, which was an immediate commercial > success. It was the first version that you could get serious work out of. > It's been compared to a camel: a vicious brute at times, but capable of > doing a lot of carrying. > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup> > >> Funny, you'd think they would use that same _personality_ system to >> implement WSL1, the Linux-emulation layer. But they didn't. > > They were called subsystems in Windows NT, and ran on top of the NT > kernel. The POSIX one came first, and was very limited, followed by the > Interix one that was called Windows Services for Unix. Programs for both > of these were in PE-COFF format, not ELF. There was also the OS/2 > subsystem, but it only ran text-mode programs. > > The POSIX subsystem was there to meet US government purchasing > requirements, not to be used for anything serious. I can't imagine Dave > Cutler was keen on it. The Posix interface support was there so *MS* could bid on US government and military contracts which, at that time frame, were making noise about it being standard for all their contracts. The Posix DLLs didn't come with WinNT, you had to ask MS for them specially. The US government eventually stopped pushing for Posix and Windows support for it quietly disappeared. WinNT's OS2 subsystem also quietly disappeared. > WSL1 seems to have been something odd: rather than a single subsystem, a > bunch of mini-subsystems. However, VMS/NT kernels just have different > assumptions about programs from Unix-style kernels, so they went to > lightweight virtualisation in WSL2. Yes. VMS and WinNT handle memory sections differently than *nix. That difference makes fork() system call essentially impossible to implement on VMS/WinNT except by copying the address space. Note that back then Posix did not require fork be supported, just fork-exec (aka spawn) which does not require duplicating memory space, just carrying file and socket handles to the child process which NT handles natively. In the VMS/WinNT way, each memory section is defined as either shared or private when created and cannot be changed. This allows optimizations in page table and page file handling. Whereas in *nix a process can map a file and there is just one section user, then fork and now there are multiple section users. Then that child can change the address space and fork again. *nix needs to maintain various data structures to support forking memory just in case it happens. WSL1 was an _emulation_ of Linux essentially as a subsystem like OS2 and Posix were supported. WSL1 apparently supported fork() but did so by copying memory space making it slow, whereas fork-exec/spawn would be fast. Trying to emulate Linux with a privileged subsystem of helper processes was likely (I never used it) a lot of work, slow, and flaky. WSL2 sounds like they tossed the whole WSL1 thing and built a hyper-V virtual machine to run native Linux on top of WinNT as a host. > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux#History> > > The same problem seems to have messed up all the attempts to provide good > Unix emulation on VMS. It's notable that MICA started out trying to > provide both VMS and Unix APIs, but this was dropped in favour of a > separate Unix OS before MICA was cancelled. > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_MICA#Design_goals> > >> I think the whole _personality_ concept, along with the supposed >> portability to non-x86 architectures, had just bit-rotted away by >> that point. > > Some combination of that, Microsoft confidence that "of course we can do > something better now!" - they are very prone to overconfidence - and the > terrible tendency of programmers to ignore the details of the old code. > > John Back then "object oriented" and "micro-kernel" buzzwords were all the rage.
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-09 16:01 -0400 |
| Subject | VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering) |
| Message-ID | <jwv5xq16ock.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> |
| In reply to | #109592 |
> In the VMS/WinNT way, each memory section is defined as either shared
> or private when created and cannot be changed. This allows optimizations
> in page table and page file handling.
Interesting. Do you happen to have a pointer for further reading
about it?
> *nix needs to maintain various data structures to support forking
> memory just in case it happens.
I can't imagine what those datastructures would be (which might be just
another way to say that I was brought up on POSIX and can't imagine the
world differently).
Stefan
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-10-09 23:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering) |
| Message-ID | <m9ENO.34382$5837.10764@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #109603 |
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: >> In the VMS/WinNT way, each memory section is defined as either shared >> or private when created and cannot be changed. This allows optimizations >> in page table and page file handling. > >Interesting. Do you happen to have a pointer for further reading >about it? > >> *nix needs to maintain various data structures to support forking >> memory just in case it happens. > >I can't imagine what those datastructures would be (which might be just >another way to say that I was brought up on POSIX and can't imagine the >world differently). > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vms/training/EY-8264E-DP_VMS_Internals_and_Data_Structures_4.4_1988.pdf
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