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Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery

From Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery
Date 2026-03-18 00:40 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <864imd60wn.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <10ku4fc$3c80o$1@dont-email.me> <1769127215-5857@newsgrouper.org> <RnzcR.6489$jWN.2249@fx21.iad> <86bjhqhad1.fsf@linuxsc.com> <BklkR.1117335$skXf.352075@fx12.iad>

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David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> writes:

> On 2/14/26 10:57 PM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>
>> David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 1/22/26 6:13 PM, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>
>>>> The timber of instruments requires phase accurate reproduction of
>>>> frequencies up to at least 15KHz.
>>>
>>> Define "phase accurate".  As in how much phase error at say 20KHz is
>>> acceptable to you.  1 degree? 10?
>>
>> Between 2 and 10 degrees, based on a rough calculation.
>>
>>> And how do you maintain that through the signal chain?  In, for
>>> example, speaker crossover networks.
>>
>> One way of doing that is to drive full-range electrostats
>> directly from the output stage of the amplifier.
>
> A big panel launching a wave front at you.  All with varying
> distances/phase to your ear.

One of the main points of using a panel speaker is they produce a
plane wave rather than a collection of point sources.  Undoubtedly
there are some second-order effects because the panels have finite
size but for the most part the phase is uniform over a fairly large
area.

> I love my Maggies but if I move my head even a few inches up or down
> the high frequencies roll off enough for even my old lead ears to
> notice.

Magnepans and Magneplanars are okay.  I didn't ever own Magnepans
but I did own Magneplanars for a while and liked them.  They weren't
as good as the electrostats.  I suspect the main reason for that is
the much larger diaphragm mass of the Magneplanars, which causes its
own kind of problems, including in particular frequency-dependent
phase lag.  I can say for sure that the electrostats were more
transparent than the Magneplanars, even as good as they Magneplanars
were.

Regarding the high-frequency roll off - it's likey this does occur
(high frequencies do beam after all) but in my experience it doesn't
affect the listening experience much.  Maybe that's because when I
listen I tend to be stationary rather than moving.  Also the ear is
more sensitive to changes in phase than changes in amplitude.

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Thread

Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 05:28 -0500
  Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-06 16:21 +0000
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 13:54 -0500
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 13:18 -0700
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 15:42 -0500
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 14:37 -0700
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-09-07 12:26 +0200
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-07 14:59 -0500
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-07 21:13 +0000
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-07 18:58 -0500
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-07 21:16 -0500
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-07 22:55 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-08 06:49 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 23:28 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-09 07:06 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-09 18:47 +0300
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-09 20:27 -0500
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-07 21:12 +0000
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-08 10:59 +0200
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 15:10 -0500
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-08 21:10 +0000
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 18:57 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 21:49 -0500
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-09 15:06 +0200
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-09 14:13 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-09 20:55 +0000
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-09 14:15 -0700
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-09 14:17 -0700
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-09 23:23 +0200
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-09-08 17:57 -0400
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-08 23:51 +0000
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-09 15:51 +0200
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-09-12 13:01 -0400
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-12 12:23 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-12 20:32 +0200
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-09-14 07:43 -0400
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-14 15:08 +0200
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-12 18:58 +0000
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-12 14:30 -0500
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-12 14:46 -0500
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-22 03:18 -0800
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-11 01:35 +0000
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-11 15:06 +0000
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-11 15:59 +0000
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-19 02:10 +0000
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-11 12:56 -0500
  Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-09-06 11:59 -0500
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 12:31 -0500
  Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-06 20:52 +0300
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 14:19 -0500
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-11 01:33 +0000
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-11 02:05 -0500
    Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-22 03:31 -0800
      Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 15:21 -0600
        Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-23 00:13 +0000
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2026-01-22 18:36 -0600
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-23 02:00 +0000
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2026-01-22 20:20 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 02:25 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-01-23 11:43 +0200
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 05:27 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-23 15:49 +0000
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-01-23 17:37 +0100
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-01-23 18:56 +0200
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-01-23 18:14 +0100
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-02-14 20:44 -0800
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-02-15 02:11 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2026-01-23 11:07 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 14:52 -0600
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-23 15:36 +0000
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-01-23 15:35 -0800
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-02-14 20:57 -0800
              Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2026-02-15 09:09 -0600
                Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-18 00:40 -0700
          Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 17:04 -0800
            Re: Random/OT: Low sample rate audio weirdness/mystery BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 05:13 -0600

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