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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?)

From Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.ai.nat-lang, sci.lang.semantics
Subject Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?)
Date 2020-07-13 15:06 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <87a7033w9l.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <regsjh$3ct$1@dont-email.me> <874kqb6e3j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <reibd3$p3e$1@dont-email.me> <87eepf3yr5.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <reijsu$f6o$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> writes:
> On 7/13/2020 3:12 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> writes:
>>> On 7/13/2020 1:58 AM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>> Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> writes:
>>>>> On 7/12/2020 3:04 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>>> It's occurred to me that this raises a (perhaps) interesting question
>>>>>> -- or maybe I'm missing something obvious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a system that includes Euclid's first four postulate but not the
>>>>>> fifth (the parallel postulate), neither the parallel postulate nor
>>>>>> its negation can be proven.  We can construct a consistent system
>>>>>> with the parallel postulate as an axiom.  We can *also* construct
>>>>>> a consistent system with the negation of the parallel postulate as
>>>>>> an axiom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robinson Arithmetic cannot prove or disprove commutativity
>>>>>> of addition.  We can construct a consistent system based on
>>>>>> Robinson Arithmetic in which addition is provably commutative.
>>>>>> Can we construct a consistent system based on Robinson Arithmetic
>>>>>> in which addition is provably *not* commutative?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been awhile but my memory might be working. Let's first look at
>>>>> what a "fixed" use of commutativity might look like: 1+2 = 2+1
>>>>> expressed as S0 + SS0 = SS0 + S0, where "s" is the successor function
>>>>> and "0" is a constant given by the axioms. This can be proven in
>>>>> Robinson (R) and so can ANY other fixed example. What you can not
>>>>> prove is the combined version:
>>>>>      forall x in I forall y in I x+y = y+x
>>>>> Since you can prove each instance, within R, there will be no model
>>>>> where commutativity does not hold, i.e, where
>>>>>     there exist x in I there exist y in I x+y ~= y+x
>>>>> can be demonstrated. If we endow R with an appropriate induction
>>>>> axiom, we can prove commutativity within R. There is no extension to R
>>>>> that can make commutativity false and the extension consistent. There
>>>>> are many properties of number like systems where all individual
>>>>> examples can be proven but the combined property cannot.
>>>>>
>>>>> The above example is very instructive: a formal system besides syntax
>>>>> rules must have proof rules as we all keep saying. Here we can extend
>>>>> R to be commutative in at least two ways: 1) make it an axiom of R or
>>>>> 2) adopt an appropriate induction rule a proof rule.
>>>>
>>>> (Apparently Robinson Arithmetic is usually called Q, not R.)
>>>>
>>>> So Q can't prove that addition is commutative, but Q+induction
>>>> can, yes?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if a system in which induction specifically *doesn't* work,
>>>> such as Q+¬induction, so that a statement that would be true in
>>>> Q+induction might be provably false, could be made to work.
>>>>
>>>> But I digress.
>>>>
>>>>> Now let's make an observation: R is incomplete because it can't prove
>>>>> something that is true in it. Of course you can't prove its false
>>>>> either. In this example, you can prove commutativity is true by using
>>>>> the power of the meta logic which will have some sort of induction
>>>>> equivalent available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at another case floating through these discussions or
>>>>> corrective lectures to a poor student. Consider Euclid with the
>>>>> standard four postulates P1, P2, P3. P4 plus a bunch of definitions
>>>>> and the axioms of measure - sort of the real numbers. We know that P5,
>>>>> the parallel postulate, can be added and so could its negation. In
>>>>> other words we know that there can be zero, one, or more lines through
>>>>> a point (not on another line) that do not intersect that other
>>>>> line. In this case we don't bother to say that P1, P2, P3, P4 are not
>>>>> complete; rather we make the much more powerful statement that P5 is
>>>>> INDEPENDENT of basic Euclid. This is in the same way that the axiom of
>>>>> choice is independent of the rest of basic set theory.
>>>>
>>>> That makes sense.  So the relationship between Q and the
>>>> commutativity of addition is fundamentally different from the
>>>> relationship between Euclid-P5 (Euclid without the parallel
>>>> postulate) and P5.  The former is true but unprovable in Q,
>>>> but P5 can consistently be made either true or false in a system
>>>> built on top of Euclid-P5.  (But if we could create a system like
>>>> Q+¬induction, they might be more similar.  It seems difficult to
>>>> think about such as system.)
>>>
>>> Recall, we can't prove commutativity in R|Q period. However, our meta
>>> logic can do the proof because it provides additional
>>> mechanisms. Let's look at a Peano-like induction rule where I is the
>>> integers and S is the successor function: If Z subset-of I, 0 in Z,
>>> and whenever x in Z then Sx in Z; then Z = I. How would an
>>> anti-induction rule be expressed? What would it mean? And would it
>>> lead to inconsistency? In other words would it falsify even one
>>> theorem provable in R|Q by the remaining axioms?
>>
>> The answer to most of that is "I don't know", but I can sketch one
>> possible partial answer.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_arithmetic#Axioms
>>
>> Consider a set consisting of blue natural numbers (integers >= 0,
>> colored blue) and red integers (all integers, negative, 0, and positive,
>> colored red).  The successor of any blue number is a blue number, and
>> the successor of any red number is a red number.  (red 0 is zero in the
>> model; blue 0 is not.  Blue 0 is the successor of blue -1.)
>
> If I read this correctly: 1) All non-negative integers are blue. 2)
> All integers less than, equal to, or greater than zero are read => all
> integers are read. 3) Therefore, every blue integer is also red. I
> don't believe that is what you mean so I ask for a clarification
> before continuing to what follows. I understand that I might be
> misreading the above paragraph but I keep getting what I just said in
> my paraphrase.

Not quite.

The set consists of blue non-negative integers and red integers.  Red
and blue integers with the same value are distinct.  So these are all
distinct elements of the set:

    blue 0
    blue 1
    blue 2
    ...
    red -2
    red -1
    red 0
    red 1
    red 2

Blue 0 (but not red 0) plays the role of "zero" in the axioms.

It's designed so there's a least element (with no predecessor),
every element has a successor, and every element other than zero has
a predecessor, but (unlike the natural numbers) there are elements
you can never reach by repeatedly applying the successor operation
starting at zero.

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips Healthcare
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 22:52 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:06 -0600
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 23:33 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:58 -0600
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 00:41 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 23:59 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 11:20 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-06 11:18 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 13:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:17 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 17:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 18:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 19:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 19:28 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 21:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 21:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 22:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 14:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 08:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 08:03 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:41 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 21:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 23:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 22:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 23:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 00:14 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 09:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:09 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 06:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 11:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 12:13 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 12:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 11:54 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 14:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 17:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 09:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 10:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 10:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 12:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 12:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 14:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 15:00 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 20:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 18:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 00:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 11:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 12:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 13:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 16:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 15:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:21 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 23:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 07:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 14:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:22 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 19:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 19:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 08:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:24 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 16:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 19:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 11:25 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 11:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 12:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 15:19 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 23:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 00:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 01:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:16 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:59 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 03:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 20:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 15:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-19 22:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 10:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-20 10:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 12:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-21 01:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:09 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 [--Obvious Yet?--] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 14:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 09:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:52 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 21:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 20:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-14 18:24 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 17:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 18:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-14 17:00 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 18:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 02:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 21:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 23:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Mapping to Boolean) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 16:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 01:37 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 14:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 02:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 21:09 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 15:05 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:23 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 11:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:21 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 13:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:25 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 14:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 15:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:18 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 00:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 20:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-12 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 00:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 14:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 15:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-14 00:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-13 23:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 16:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 17:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:10 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 23:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-09 00:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:15 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 15:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Shell game) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 19:04 -0500

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