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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #233880

Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix

From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix
Date 2026-02-02 09:47 -0800
Organization A place where nothing fits quite right
Message-ID <20260202094727.000040fb@gmail.com> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <10lj76b$2dltg$3@dont-email.me> <10ll48q$2vbi7$1@dont-email.me> <10llqrd$37blf$4@dont-email.me> <2JvfR.25753$psT8.8136@fx22.iad> <10lmalb$3c9qc$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 01:35:39 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> But there was never any thought of making it more useful as a
> personal-computing-oriented OS.
> 
> For example, having a simple frame-buffer driver which allowed mapping
> video RAM directly into a process address space. In lieu of a more
> elaborate graphics API abstraction, that would have allowed the
> greater immediacy of interactivity that was commonplace on single-user
> systems at the time.
> 
> Instead, MS-DOS followed the CP/M mindset of treating the keyboard and
> screen as though they were a dumb terminal at the other end of a low-
> bandwidth serial line.

Thing is that MS-DOS began life as QDOS and didn't have specific ties
to the IBM PC; it ran on a variety of 8086-based systems from different
vendors, which didn't even necessarily *have* bitmapped graphics and
could well have been driving a terminal. (For that matter, neither did
the PC; you could run one with nothing but a text-only MDA card, if you
wanted.)

The era where that ever mattered only lasted a couple years, but more
or less set things in stone; any initial solution would've been about
as clunky as DRI's attempt to "bolt on" a standard graphics library to
CP/M, where the capabilities of the hardware were so varied that the
least-common-denominator was...well, *least.*

And by the time DOS was definitively a PC-only OS and the PC had a
reasonable graphics standard (I'm not counting the CGA,) it was past
the point where adding a bolt-on library to DOS made any sense; MS was
already working on Windows, and DOS programmers were already used to
frobbing the hardware directly.

It would've made more sense to divorce Windows from DOS right out the
gate, but of course that would've lost backwards-compatibility as a
selling point; hosting DOS applications in a Windows environment didn't
become truly feasible 'til the 386 was standard, which wasn't 'til the
early '90s. Kind of a perfect storm, really...

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Thread

Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-27 20:15 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-27 15:58 -0500
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-27 21:00 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 03:24 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-27 21:41 -0700
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:45 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-28 05:26 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:00 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:47 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-01-28 12:07 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-28 13:37 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 15:21 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:54 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:45 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:29 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 18:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:10 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 06:54 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:04 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 15:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 10:36 -0800
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:11 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:15 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:25 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:19 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 06:55 -0500
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:01 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:51 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:14 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 15:34 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:49 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 20:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-30 23:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:55 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 23:48 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:35 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-30 11:29 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:22 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:04 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-31 06:59 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 19:39 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-30 13:57 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:11 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-30 18:59 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-02 02:22 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-01-27 21:32 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 06:11 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 07:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:28 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 17:14 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:32 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 13:03 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:22 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:08 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 05:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:23 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 17:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:38 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:28 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-02 11:44 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 19:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-04 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-05 05:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-04 11:08 +0100
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:18 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:16 -0500
            ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:31 +0000
              Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-02 17:36 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 20:19 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 20:46 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 21:01 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-28 14:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:30 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 13:50 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 22:13 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:24 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 07:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:48 +0000
                less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:51 +0000
                Re: less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-30 15:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 18:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-28 21:50 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:24 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:32 -0500
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:42 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:34 +0000
            pg (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:39 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:27 -0500
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:17 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:06 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:42 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-30 11:01 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:44 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:55 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-05 10:35 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-09 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-16 15:49 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-31 07:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 17:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:35 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 09:47 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 00:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 08:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:06 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 12:54 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 19:57 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 21:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 17:33 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:08 +0000
                Re: PC/IX, was Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-03 02:29 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 03:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-03 10:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 21:19 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 21:55 +0000
                "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-04 13:47 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-05 13:33 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-05 16:13 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-04 18:16 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 15:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-03 15:22 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 22:32 +0000
                fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-02-04 15:29 -0500
                Re: fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-02-04 23:43 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 02:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-05 09:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 14:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-05 10:42 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 15:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-04 09:01 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:20 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-05 15:12 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-31 18:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 10:03 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:06 -0700
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:38 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:34 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:36 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:36 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-01-29 08:43 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 15:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 11:46 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:58 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 12:15 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 19:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:32 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-02-05 03:04 -0400
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m6d-this> - 2026-01-31 08:35 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:59 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:36 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:26 -0700
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:46 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 16:25 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:22 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 16:02 -0800
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 01:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:12 -0800
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 00:28 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:07 -0800
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:21 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:36 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-28 00:29 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:11 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:54 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:20 +0000

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