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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #233882

Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix

From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix
Date 2026-02-02 18:08 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <10lqp6e$et1$2@reader2.panix.com> (permalink)
References <10lb6d7$3she5$1@dont-email.me> <10ln01t$3hqko$1@dont-email.me> <10lnq6e$643$1@reader2.panix.com> <10lob1i$264s$1@dont-email.me>

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In article <10lob1i$264s$1@dont-email.me>,
Peter Flass  <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
>On 2/1/26 08:06, Dan Cross wrote:
>> 
>> John Levine has posted before about a port of Unix to the 8086,
>> that made use of the segmentation system to more or less protect
>> the OS from errant user programs; the C compiler simply did not
>> emit instructions to change the segmentation registers, so it
>> worked pretty well as I understand it.
>
>As long is everything is limited to 64K data and 64K program.

Yeah, that would be the downside.

>> The "TSS" (Task State Segment) has been overloaded in
>> 64-bit "long" mode to hold a table of stack pointers that can be
>> used with various traps so that, say, the double-fault, NMI or
>> debug/breakpoint handlers can run on dedicated stacks.  
>
>I can see where this would be useful.

It is.  However, it would be better if there were banked stack
pointers one could initialize via MSRs, as one does for e.g.
LSTAR and KERNEL_GS_BASE.  The need to continue to use the TSS
feels weird; you _do_ need to touch it on every context switch,
if your kernel threading model has separate stacks for each
schedulable user thing (thread/process/task/whatever you want to
call them).

>There's
>> also some business about allowing non-privileged access to IO
>> ports for programmed IO from user-mode code.  Anyway.
>> 
>> The 80386 was designed as a 32-bit CPU for the Unix workstation
>> market, and supported paging natively.  I must say, all things
>> considered they did a pretty good job overall with the design of
>> the MMU and page table format.  To maintain backwards
>> compabibility they extended the segmentation mechanism; the
>> intent was that you would define segments covering the entire
>> 32-bit address space and then more or less ignore them.
>
>I'm still disappointed that they didn't adopt the Multics model for 
>segments.

Which part of the model, specifically?

	- Dan C.

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Thread

Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-27 20:15 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-27 15:58 -0500
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-27 21:00 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 03:24 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-27 21:41 -0700
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:45 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-28 05:26 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:00 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:47 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-01-28 12:07 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-28 13:37 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 15:21 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:54 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:45 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:29 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 18:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:10 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 06:54 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:04 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 15:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 10:36 -0800
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:11 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:15 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:25 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:19 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 06:55 -0500
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:01 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:51 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:14 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 15:34 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:49 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 20:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-30 23:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:55 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 23:48 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:35 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-30 11:29 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:22 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:04 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-31 06:59 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 19:39 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-30 13:57 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:11 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-30 18:59 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-02 02:22 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-01-27 21:32 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 06:11 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 07:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:28 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 17:14 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:32 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 13:03 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:22 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:08 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 05:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:23 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 17:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:38 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:28 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-02 11:44 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 19:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-04 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-05 05:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-04 11:08 +0100
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:18 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:16 -0500
            ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:31 +0000
              Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-02 17:36 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 20:19 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 20:46 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 21:01 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-28 14:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:30 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 13:50 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 22:13 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:24 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 07:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:48 +0000
                less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:51 +0000
                Re: less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-30 15:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 18:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-28 21:50 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:24 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:32 -0500
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:42 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:34 +0000
            pg (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:39 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:27 -0500
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:17 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:06 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:42 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-30 11:01 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:44 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:55 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-05 10:35 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-09 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-16 15:49 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-31 07:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 17:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:35 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 09:47 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 00:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 08:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:06 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 12:54 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 19:57 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 21:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 17:33 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:08 +0000
                Re: PC/IX, was Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-03 02:29 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 03:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-03 10:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 21:19 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 21:55 +0000
                "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-04 13:47 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-05 13:33 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-05 16:13 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-04 18:16 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 15:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-03 15:22 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 22:32 +0000
                fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-02-04 15:29 -0500
                Re: fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-02-04 23:43 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 02:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-05 09:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 14:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-05 10:42 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 15:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-04 09:01 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:20 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-05 15:12 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-31 18:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 10:03 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:06 -0700
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:38 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:34 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:36 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:36 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-01-29 08:43 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 15:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 11:46 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:58 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 12:15 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 19:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:32 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-02-05 03:04 -0400
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m6d-this> - 2026-01-31 08:35 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:59 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:36 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:26 -0700
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:46 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 16:25 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:22 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 16:02 -0800
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 01:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:12 -0800
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 00:28 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:07 -0800
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:21 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:36 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-28 00:29 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:11 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:54 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:20 +0000

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