Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #233865

Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix

From	cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix
Date	2026-02-01 15:06 +0000
Organization	PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID	<10lnq6e$643$1@reader2.panix.com> (permalink)
References	<10lb6d7$3she5$1@dont-email.me> <10ll48q$2vbi7$1@dont-email.me> <10llqrd$37blf$4@dont-email.me> <10ln01t$3hqko$1@dont-email.me>

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In article <10ln01t$3hqko$1@dont-email.me>,
Peter Flass  <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
>On 1/31/26 14:05, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Worth also pointing out that, at the time of MS-DOS 2.0 with its
>> introduction of some bizarro-Unix features, the commonly-available PC
>> hardware was already more powerful than the original PDP-11 systems
>> that Unix was created on. So why couldn’t Microsoft (or IBM) provide a
>> full Unix-equivalent OS for PC hardware back then?
>
>No memory protection or memory mapping until the 386. There were 
>unix-like OSs for 8086, but they were terrible fragile without memory 
>protection. I don't know how it was managed on the PDP-11.

[Meta note: I wonder why people continue to engage with Lawrence
as he is an obvious troll.  Please don't feed him]

Most PDP-11 models that ran Unix had an MMU.  It wasn't a very
capable MMU, mind you, but it at least allowed the system to
protect processes from one another and protect the kernel from
processes.

John Levine has posted before about a port of Unix to the 8086,
that made use of the segmentation system to more or less protect
the OS from errant user programs; the C compiler simply did not
emit instructions to change the segmentation registers, so it
worked pretty well as I understand it.

The 80286 featured a bizarre, overly wrought "task" model in
hardware that saw little use in practice; I believe that OS/2
might have used it.  Vestiges of it persist into the modern day,
where the "TSS" (Task State Segment) has been overloaded in
64-bit "long" mode to hold a table of stack pointers that can be
used with various traps so that, say, the double-fault, NMI or
debug/breakpoint handlers can run on dedicated stacks.  There's
also some business about allowing non-privileged access to IO
ports for programmed IO from user-mode code.  Anyway.

The 80386 was designed as a 32-bit CPU for the Unix workstation
market, and supported paging natively.  I must say, all things
considered they did a pretty good job overall with the design of
the MMU and page table format.  To maintain backwards
compabibility they extended the segmentation mechanism; the
intent was that you would define segments covering the entire
32-bit address space and then more or less ignore them.

	- Dan C.

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Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-27 20:15 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-27 15:58 -0500
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-27 21:00 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 03:24 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-27 21:41 -0700
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:45 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-28 05:26 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:00 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:47 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-01-28 12:07 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-28 13:37 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 15:21 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:54 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 23:45 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:29 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 18:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:10 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 06:54 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:04 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 15:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 10:36 -0800
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 16:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:11 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:15 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:25 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 04:19 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 06:55 -0500
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:01 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 15:51 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:14 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 15:34 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:49 -0700
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 20:01 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-30 23:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:55 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 23:48 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:35 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-30 11:29 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:22 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 22:26 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:04 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 04:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-31 06:59 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 19:39 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-30 13:57 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:11 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-30 18:59 -0500
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-02 02:22 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-01-27 21:32 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 06:11 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 07:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:28 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 17:14 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-01-30 17:32 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 13:03 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:22 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:08 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 05:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:23 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 06:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 17:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:38 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 07:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:28 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-02 11:44 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 19:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-04 00:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-02-05 05:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-04 11:08 +0100
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:18 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:16 -0500
            ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:31 +0000
              Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-02 17:36 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 20:19 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 20:46 +0000
                Re: ed (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 21:01 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-28 14:07 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2026-01-28 19:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:30 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 13:50 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 22:13 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 15:24 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 07:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:48 +0000
                less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:51 +0000
                Re: less is *not* really more or less like more? (was: Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-30 15:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:50 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 18:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 20:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:15 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 13:14 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-28 21:50 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 22:24 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:19 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:32 -0500
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:42 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:34 +0000
            pg (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:39 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:27 -0500
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 01:17 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:06 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-29 12:42 -0700
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-30 11:01 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-30 07:44 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 12:55 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 16:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-05 10:35 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-09 13:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-16 15:49 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:18 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-31 07:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-31 17:58 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-01-31 19:44 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:09 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-31 21:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-31 22:52 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 01:35 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 06:49 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 09:47 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 00:40 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 08:59 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-01 15:06 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 12:54 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 19:57 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-01 21:31 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-02 17:33 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:08 +0000
                Re: PC/IX, was Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-03 02:29 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 03:24 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-03 10:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 21:19 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 21:55 +0000
                "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-04 13:47 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-02-05 13:33 +0000
                Re: "POSIX" ACLs (was: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-05 16:13 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-04 18:16 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:39 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-03 15:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-03 15:22 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-03 22:32 +0000
                fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-02-04 15:29 -0500
                Re: fucking lies [was Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:47 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-04 15:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-02-04 23:43 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 02:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-05 09:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-02-05 14:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-05 10:42 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-01 19:55 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-02 18:05 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 15:07 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-02-04 09:01 -0700
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:37 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-04 20:41 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 19:20 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-04 19:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-02-04 21:46 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-02-05 15:12 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-01 08:12 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-31 18:19 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 20:57 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 10:03 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 08:06 -0700
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 14:38 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-28 20:34 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-28 17:36 -0500
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:36 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-01-29 08:43 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-29 15:36 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-29 11:46 -0500
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:58 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 06:30 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 12:15 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-29 19:32 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 19:55 +0000
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:56 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-30 19:02 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:32 -0800
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-31 05:10 +0000
                Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-02-05 03:04 -0400
              Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:40 +0000
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m6d-this> - 2026-01-31 08:35 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 11:59 -0800
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 11:36 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-28 22:26 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-28 20:26 -0700
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-30 09:46 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-30 19:18 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-31 16:25 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:22 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 16:02 -0800
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-28 01:52 +0000
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:12 -0800
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-29 00:28 +0000
          Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 13:07 -0800
            Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-30 21:21 +0000
        Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-29 14:36 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-28 00:29 +0000
    Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 16:11 -0800
      Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-29 00:54 +0000
  Re: Don Norman: The Truth About Unix Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-29 11:20 +0000

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