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Groups > linux.debian.project > #11795

Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian

From Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.project
Subject Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian
Date 2020-04-15 19:50 +0200
Message-ID <zVUkF-47D-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <zVAvE-eM-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <zVLr3-7dp-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <zVOoV-yM-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <zVOIh-FE-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <zVP1D-11z-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization The Eyrie

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<tomas@tuxteam.de> writes:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:45:13PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote:

>> If there is sufficient pushback, I'll delete the instance, move on with
>> my life, and conclude that no one in Debian can possibly try and
>> innovate or do new things unless it is either:
>> * 100% optional for people, or
>> * made completely compatable with the old way of doing things

> Oh, now. This wasn't necessary.

I think it was.  The amount of hostility with which Neil is being met for
even trying something new is kind of staggering, and if I were him, I
would be equally upset.

It's way easier to say no than to try to build something new.  I wish
people would take that into account and try to engage with what someone is
attempting to accomplish and respect the effort that they're putting into
trying to make Debian better, even if they don't think this effort will
succeed.  For example, a whole lot of people have piled on to declare
things that they consider misfeatures in Discourse to be "completely
unacceptable" or other wording of that type, and very few of those people
have asked the obvious question of whether these are things we could
simply turn off, and what would be lost by doing so.

It's easy for the negativity to feel highly asymmetric, and to quickly
reach the conclusion that Debian is not a useful environment for
attempting to accomplish anything new because it's so much easier for
people to block things than it is for people to build new things.

A lot of strenuous objections are equally effective when phrased as
questions about capabilities and configuration options, and are much
easier and less stressful to engage with in that form.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org)              <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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Thread

Testing Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 21:10 +0200
  Re: Testing Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-10 21:30 +0200
    too many acronyms [was: Testing Discourse for Debian] Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2020-04-10 22:30 +0200
  Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-11 23:20 +0200
    Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-12 00:20 +0200
      Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2020-04-12 20:20 +0200
        Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 21:50 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-13 22:50 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-13 23:20 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neil@halon.org.uk> - 2020-04-14 15:00 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 16:00 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 17:10 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 17:30 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-15 01:10 +0200
        Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-13 23:20 +0200
      Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2020-04-12 22:00 +0200
        Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 20:40 +0200
        Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-13 23:30 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 08:30 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-15 00:50 +0200
  Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Olek Wojnar <olek@debian.org> - 2020-04-12 03:00 +0200
  Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-12 20:20 +0200
    Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-12 21:00 +0200
      Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-12 21:50 +0200
        Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-12 22:30 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Michael Lustfield <michael@lustfield.net> - 2020-04-13 00:10 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-13 01:40 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 01:50 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 02:00 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> - 2020-04-13 01:50 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-13 01:50 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 03:50 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Marcin Kulisz <kula@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 09:10 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 10:20 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Neil McGovern <neil@halon.org.uk> - 2020-04-13 21:10 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Mathias Behrle <mbehrle@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 22:40 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-13 23:50 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-14 09:40 +0200
                tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-04-14 10:30 +0200
                Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-14 11:10 +0200
                Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 12:20 +0200
                Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) Karsten Merker <merker@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 18:50 +0200
                [Summary] Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-14 22:40 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 23:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 00:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-15 01:00 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 17:40 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Ross Vandegrift <rvandegrift@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 18:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Olek Wojnar <olek@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 20:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Steffen Möller <steffen_moeller@gmx.de> - 2020-04-16 20:40 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 23:40 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2020-04-19 18:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neil@halon.org.uk> - 2020-04-15 10:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-15 13:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neil@halon.org.uk> - 2020-04-15 13:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-15 14:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 19:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Karsten Merker <merker@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 21:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 22:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-06-17 18:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-06-17 19:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-06-18 02:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-16 10:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-15 14:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 16:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-04-15 18:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-15 19:00 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 19:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-04-15 19:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-04-15 19:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-15 19:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 20:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-04-15 20:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-04-15 20:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 21:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 21:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-04-15 21:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> - 2020-04-15 20:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-15 19:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-15 20:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 20:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-04-15 20:40 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 23:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-16 23:40 +0200
                [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian)  Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-17 00:30 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-17 00:50 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-17 11:20 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-17 12:00 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-17 12:30 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2020-04-17 13:50 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-17 16:10 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-17 14:50 +0200
                Re: [BTB] Asking vs enforcing (was: [Summary] Discourse for Debian) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-17 15:20 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Brian Gupta <brian.gupta@brandorr.com> - 2020-04-15 16:20 +0200
                Mandatory Communication Methods was: Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-04-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 17:00 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Brian Gupta <brian.gupta@brandorr.com> - 2020-04-15 21:50 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-04-15 17:10 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 19:30 +0200
                Re: [Summary] Discourse for Debian Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 21:10 +0200
                Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-15 00:50 +0200
                Re: tracking our readers? (Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-15 00:50 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-04-14 00:00 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-14 10:10 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 12:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-14 14:30 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 11:10 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 14:40 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 15:30 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 16:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 10:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 11:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 12:30 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 13:10 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 13:30 +0200
                "From" at beginning of line gets escaped (was: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian) Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: "From" at beginning of line gets escaped (was: Re: Testing Discourse for Debian) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 17:50 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 13:30 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2020-05-03 21:10 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-05-04 13:20 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-05-04 13:40 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 15:30 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 15:50 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2020-04-15 22:30 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Moderation concepts rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 16:10 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions Neil McGovern <neil@halon.org.uk> - 2020-04-13 21:30 +0200
              Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-13 21:50 +0200
                Re: Testing Discourse for Debian - Alternate interactions Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 22:20 +0200
          Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-13 02:30 +0200
            Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-13 22:40 +0200
  Discourse usability Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 22:30 +0200
    Re: Discourse usability Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2020-04-13 22:50 +0200
      Re: Discourse usability Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li> - 2020-04-14 01:10 +0200
      Re: Discourse usability Abhijith PA <abhijith@debian.org> - 2020-04-16 21:30 +0200
        Re: Discourse usability Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-17 10:00 +0200
          alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2020-04-19 19:00 +0200
            Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-20 08:20 +0200
              Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2020-04-20 14:10 +0200
              Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2020-04-20 14:20 +0200
                Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2020-04-21 01:50 +0200
                Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2020-04-21 17:20 +0200
                Re: alioth-lists and mailman3 (was Re: Discourse usability) Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-04-23 17:20 +0200
    Re: Discourse usability Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-04-14 15:50 +0200
    Re: Discourse usability MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> - 2020-04-24 18:00 +0200
  Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-04-14 16:10 +0200
    Re: Testing Discourse for Debian Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-04-16 01:00 +0200

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