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Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020

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Le lundi, 17 février 2020, 19.19:02 h CET Sam Hartman a écrit :
> >>>>> "Jerome" == Jerome Charaoui <lavamind@debian.org> writes:
>     Jerome> Following the announcement of the DebConf20 location, our
>     Jerome> desire to participate became incompatible with our
>     Jerome> commitment toward the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions
>     Jerome> (BDS) campaign launched by Palestinian civil society in
>     Jerome> 2005. Hence, many active Montreal-based Debian developpers,
>     Jerome> along with a number of other Debian developpers, have
>     Jerome> decided not to travel to Israel in August 2020 for
>     Jerome> DebConf20.
> 
> 
> I'm quite frustrated, disappointed and angry reading the above.
> 
> I had expressed a fairly strong discomfort with the anti-DC20 messaging
> I got from the original contact about Montreal.

To offer some contrast, although I can agree such introduction _could_ have 
been left out of the announcement email, I find the phrasing to be honest, 
transparent, and fair: it is not against Debian, not against DebConf, not 
against the DebConf Committee. It is merely explaining in full sight their 
reasons to a) not attend DebConf; b) organize that event at that time.

Specifically, I find the announcement OK _because_ the event dates do not 
directly conflict with DebConf20's.

> I'm going to take a couple of days to calm down before making any
> decisions, but this is not appropriate messaging in an event that Debian
> supports.

For the record, I disagree that such messaging is inappropriate on debian-
devel-announce@, nor as framing for an event "that Debian supports".

> In particular, we as a project made a decision about where we were
> holding DebConf 20.

I'd rephrase this as "the DebConf committee, as DPL delegates, made a decision 
about by whom DebConf20 was to be organized and where; this decision has not 
been overriden by a GR" [0,1].  There's nuance away from "we as a project made 
a decision".

> The above messaging  comes across as a condemnation of what the project
> has decided to do, rather than something that supports our diversity and
> compliments DC20 while supporting those who choose not to attend.

Sam; I think you're overreacting and would encourage you to re-read the full 
annoucement mail, and _specifically_ the part that you quoted; it "just" 
explains why some people from our community cannot consider attending 
DebConf20, and how they converted this constraint into organizing _another_ 
Debian gathering, at different dates.

Frankly, leaving this reasoning out of the announcement email would have felt 
disingenuous; as their unease with regards to DebConf20's location was known 
already.

Regards,
    OdyX

[0] https://lists.debian.org/debconf-team/2019/03/msg00021.html
[1] Disclaimer: I was a delegate when the decision was taken.

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Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020 Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2020-02-17 19:20 +0100
  Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020 Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 09:50 +0100
    Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-02-18 15:30 +0100
    Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 17:40 +0100
      Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 19:50 +0100
        Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 20:40 +0100
        Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana <phls@debian.org> - 2020-02-20 17:50 +0100
      Re: Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August  9th 2020 Daniel Lange <DLange@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 20:40 +0100
        Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 20:50 +0100
          Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 21:10 +0100
            Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 07:00 +0100
              Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 10:20 +0100
                Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 17:30 +0100
              Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 12:10 +0100
                Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2020-02-20 06:20 +0100
                Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> - 2020-02-20 08:20 +0100
                Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2020-02-20 14:20 +0100
              Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana <phls@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 14:00 +0100
        Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020 Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2020-02-18 21:20 +0100
      debconf decision process (was Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal  2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-02-19 13:30 +0100
      Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2020-02-19 21:30 +0100
        Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-02-20 00:20 +0100
          Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2020-02-20 06:30 +0100
            Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th  2020 Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2020-02-20 10:50 +0100

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