Re: Server hardware advice.

From	Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Server hardware advice.
Date	2019-08-08 22:50 +0200
Message-ID	<ysXwd-1AN-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <ysQXL-5Rz-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <ysRAt-6kT-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <ysS3v-6w2-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <ysSwx-6VL-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <ysTiW-7t3-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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So is the general consensus that there are no modern SBCs powerful enough to run nextcloud on (apache, mariadb, php) or a mail server (typical postfix, dovecot, opendkim, SpamAssassin etc... ) for a handful of people? That seems hard to believe. 

--
Steven Mainor

On August 8, 2019 12:14:23 PM EDT, Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:
>Quoting Reco (2019-08-08 17:25:02)
>>         Hi.
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 08, 2019 at 04:54:17PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> > > > > Then Intel stopped making desktop boards and I wanted ZFS.
>ZFS 
>> > > > > wants ECC memory.  It was time to migrate to server hardware.
>> > > > 
>> > > > My understanding is that ZFS's need / desire for ECC is 
>> > > > something of a myth. It's certainly true that many ZFS /
>FreeNAS 
>> > > > *users* have such a need, but the filesystem itself apparently 
>> > > > doesn't:
>> > > > 
>> > > >
>https://jrs-s.net/2015/02/03/will-zfs-and-non-ecc-ram-kill-your-data/
>> > > 
>> > > To summarize: if you're running ZFS, it can protect you from lots
>
>> > > of sources of data corruption. It can't protect you from RAM 
>> > > errors without ECC, so you should opt for ECC if integrity is
>your 
>> > > goal.
>> > > 
>> > > None of the other filesystems protect you against RAM errors 
>> > > either, so this is not a special requirement of ZFS.
>> > 
>> > ECC memory is rare among ARM SBCs, but Helios4 uses ECC memory!
>> 
>> ... with the only problem being the quantity of such RAM.
>> 
>> A typical Helios4 board has whopping 2Gb of RAM, which is about 4 
>> times lower than needed for comfortable ZFS usage (assuming that
>zpool 
>> size is measured in terabytes) and a user intends to run something 
>> more than a OS kernel and sshd. That estimation deliberately excludes
>
>> all advanced ZFS features (such as compression, encryption and 
>> deduplication).
>> 
>> IMO for such RAM sizes it's better to use old trusted MDRAID, LVM, 
>> ext4 and a new kid on the block - dm-integrity (all the needed tools 
>> are in buster, but some assembly is required).
>
>For the record I did not recommend using ZFS on low-end hardware.
>
>The OP asked for advice in buying low-end ARM-based hardware for use as
>
>server, and I pointed out that one ARM SBC (likely the only relatively 
>cheap one) is known to use ECC memory - which (as the previous poster 
>pointed out) is interesting _independently_ of choice of filesystem.
>
>Personally I use ext4 with journaling enabled, on either conventional 
>rotating disks, SSDs, or sdcards (no RAID involved).
>
>
> - Jonas
>
>-- 
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
> [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

Thread

Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 07:40 +0200
  Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-07 08:00 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 08:10 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> - 2019-08-07 12:20 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 14:10 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 17:00 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-07 17:10 +0200
          Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 17:20 +0200
            Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-07 17:40 +0200
            Re: Server hardware advice. ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-08-07 17:50 +0200
            Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 00:20 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 18:50 +0200
          Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 07:50 +0200
            Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-08-08 11:00 +0200
              Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 12:50 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 14:10 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 16:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 17:00 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 17:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 18:00 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Judah Richardson <judahrichardson@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 21:50 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 00:50 +0200
                [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-09 10:00 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 11:20 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-09 11:50 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 12:30 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2019-08-09 14:40 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 15:50 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 15:50 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2019-08-09 16:00 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 17:30 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 19:00 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 18:30 +0200
                Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-09 20:50 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-08 22:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-08-09 08:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-09 09:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) "Bob Crochelt" <rfc56@fastmail.com> - 2019-08-09 14:00 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-09 16:20 +0200
                Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) "Bob Crochelt" <rfc56@fastmail.com> - 2019-08-10 00:00 +0200
              Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-08 14:10 +0200
  Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 09:00 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-07 09:40 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 10:50 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 10:30 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 11:00 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 11:10 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 12:10 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 12:50 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. jochen-2019-q2@ozark.de - 2019-08-07 22:40 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 09:30 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 05:20 +0200
          Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-09 08:00 +0200
            Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 15:40 +0200
              Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 18:20 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-09 19:00 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 19:20 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-09 20:30 +0200
                OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-10 10:00 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-10 11:20 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-10 11:30 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-10 17:10 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-11 00:50 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-11 09:50 +0200
                Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-11 12:00 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 19:50 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-10 04:00 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 12:00 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 13:00 +0200
  Re: Server hardware advice. David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-08-08 09:10 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-08 15:20 +0200
    Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 15:50 +0200
      Re: Server hardware advice. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 16:30 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 17:00 +0200
          Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-08 17:30 +0200
            Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 18:20 +0200
              Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-08 22:50 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 23:10 +0200
                Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-08 23:20 +0200
        Re: Server hardware advice. David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-08-09 00:10 +0200
  Re: Server hardware advice. Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 12:20 +0200

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