Re: chromebook

From	<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: chromebook
Date	2019-07-11 10:30 +0200
Message-ID	<yiCCK-3ER-15@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<yi1tv-5Kn-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <yi1Db-5NE-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <yixa1-li-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 10:33:58PM -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 12:52 PM Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 06:48:22PM +0200, mjonsson1986@gmail.com wrote:
> > > <html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
> > xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="
> > http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type
> > content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft
> > Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
> >
> > Please post only text, not HTML.  If your email agent *cannot* do plain
> > text alone, at least configure it to send both plain text and HTML.  Or,
> > y'know, get a better email agent.
> >
> 
> As a Gmail User, but with a corporate (Universe?) email address (
> sea7kenp@eyeblinkuniverse.com), running on a hosted Ubuntu 16.04.6 Server
> with Exim4 4.86.2 running its Mail.  I administer it via ssh, and get email
> via alpine 2.20.  I used to use that corporate email for my technical email
> lists, until Gmail started putting MY OWN email into my Spam Folder.  I
> just tried it now.  Google's Error message:  "Why is this message in spam?
> It is in violation of Google's recommended sender guidelines",  So now,
> Google is running the Internet?  Those Universe emails were DEFINITELY text
> only!

Most probably you'll have to implement SPF and/or DKIM [1, 2]

I manage my own mail server. Because I Want To Know (TM).

As this was happening to me more and more (people "on" some variant of
googlemail, or hotmail/outlook/some other Microsoft mail thingy, etc.
not receiving my mails -- and digging further yes, receiving them in
their spam folders and thus not seeing them), I bit the bullet and
went for SPF/DKIM (I hadn't the guts for DMARC yet, I don't particularly
like that one).

I think bigcorps love that, because they hate the decentralized nature
of mail. Spam pressure plus measures making the live of small mail
providers help centralization.

And this spam folder thingy was too tasty to pass on: SMTP RFCs
force you to either deliver a mail or bounce it [3]. Since bouncing
has become unattractive (cf. backscatter spam), the temptation to
silently drop things was high, but not permitted by RFC. Ha! Deliver
to a spam folder and tell the users that it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to
"open" a spam mail, heck, it's even dangerous to sneeze in the general
direction of your spam folder [4] -- Tada! "no, we don't drop any mail,
missus, we deliver it. It's the user who's doing that".

This is what I call Emergent Evil. I thon't think there's a single
person out there scheming out those things, but a corporation as
a whole does come up with that kind of perverse behaviour.

Of course, most of the spam I receive these days (i do look into
my spam from time to time :-) has correct SPF and DKIM records :-/

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DKIM
[3] There's also reject at the DATA phase, which is quite attractive
   for smaller sites.
[4] Of course, if your MUA "opens" HTML mails and Word attachments...

-- tomás

Thread

Re: chromebook Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-07-09 19:00 +0200
  Re: chromebook Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-07-10 02:20 +0200
  Re: chromebook John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2019-07-10 03:40 +0200
    Re: chromebook Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-10 06:30 +0200
      Re: chromebook Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-10 09:20 +0200
      Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-10 09:30 +0200
        Re: chromebook Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-10 22:00 +0200
    Re: chromebook Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-10 08:40 +0200
      Re: chromebook Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-07-10 15:10 +0200
        Re: mutt vs HTML (was: chromebook) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-10 16:10 +0200
      Re: HTML mail (was: chromebook) John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2019-07-11 05:50 +0200
        Re: HTML mail (was: chromebook) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-11 08:30 +0200
          Re: HTML mail John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2019-07-11 09:00 +0200
            Re: HTML mail Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-11 09:20 +0200
            Re: HTML mail Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-11 09:20 +0200
              Re: HTML mail <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 10:10 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-07-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: HTML mail <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 11:40 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-07-11 16:00 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-07-11 16:10 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-07-11 19:00 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2019-07-11 20:20 +0200
                Re: HTML mail John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-11 14:30 +0200
                Re: HTML mail <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 14:50 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-11 18:00 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Thomas D Dial <tdial@acm.org> - 2019-07-11 21:30 +0200
                Re: HTML mail tomas@tuxteam.de - 2019-07-12 09:30 +0200
                Re: HTML mail Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-07-11 16:00 +0200
                Re: HTML mail David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-11 17:20 +0200
              Re: HTML mail John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2019-07-11 13:20 +0200
  Re: chromebook Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-07-11 04:40 +0200
    Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 10:30 +0200
      Re: Own MTA is hard (was: chromebook) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-11 10:40 +0200
        Re: Own MTA is hard (was: chromebook) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 10:50 +0200
      Re: chromebook John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-11 18:40 +0200
        Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-12 09:40 +0200
          Re: chromebook Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-12 10:00 +0200
            Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-12 10:40 +0200
          [Off-topic] John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-12 16:00 +0200
            Re: [Off-topic] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-12 16:30 +0200
            Re: [Off-topic] Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 19:00 +0200
              Re: [Off-topic] Diagonal Arg <debian.org@niwas.net> - 2019-07-17 04:20 +0200
                Re: [Off-topic] Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 18:30 +0200
    Re: chromebook rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-07-11 14:00 +0200
      Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 14:50 +0200
        Re: chromebook Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 06:30 +0200
          Re: chromebook Diagonal Arg <debian.org@niwas.net> - 2019-07-17 06:50 +0200
            Re: chromebook <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-17 09:10 +0200

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