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Re: trusting .deb packages

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On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 03:54:11PM +1000, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
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>Hi,
>
>On 25/07/18 07:41, Matthew Crews wrote:
>> In addition to this, be sure not to break Debian:
>>
>> https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
>> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianSoftware#Footnotes
>
>"Broken" .... many of us strongly believe that once the Debian project
>went down the route of systemd, they intrinsically broke Debian and
>trust with users; others seem to sincerely believe that systemd is all
>good or mostly good.  So, "broken" can be subjective to say the least.

I'm not sure you understand how Debian works, then. Debian is a 
political animal as much as it is technical. There was a technical 
requirement for a better init system, so there was a political process 
to decide what that would be (I say political because, although there 
was a technical committee making the decision, opinions were sought from 
the user base, so there was the possibility of minds being swayed). When 
the decision to use systemd was achieved, Debian went down the road of 
preferring that as the init system. 

Breaking Debian, in this instance, means introducing applications from 
outside the ecosystem. Packages in Debian are, generally speaking, 
tested and reviewed to work with each other. Of course there will be 
incompatibilities, but perhaps a Breaks: header will fix that, or the 
maintainer will push an updated version. With applications from outside 
Debian, though, you don't have that guarantee. Often, packages from 
outside Debian can be quite naive - not working with dpkg-statoverride 
perhaps, or installing files and not removing them on uninstall, or 
perhaps just conflicting with files which ARE in Debian.

What you're talking about, though, isn't breaking Debian per se, but 
breaking Linux/Unix as an ethos. The UNIX ethos is many small tools, 
each doing one thing well. SysV init is a good example of that and 
systemd isn't. But then, one could say that the Linux kernel is not a 
good example of the UNIX ethos, either - it's big and complicated and 
we'd probably all be better off switching to a microkernel.

>
>To me and others whom share my views, Debian is indeed broken like
>many other "modern day" Linux distros; one answer is Devuan [1], which
>I fully support.
>
>On the whole, I have been very saddened by the path that this project
>has taken and I'm hoping that one day it will "right" itself once
>again, but I'm not holding my breath as I think the damage to date
>(without considering what more badness is to come) has been too great,
>there are egos that are too large, and the complexity created is
>already far too significant, to reverse this terrible, terrible
>decision to "fix" something in such a damaging way.
>
>[1] https://devuan.org
>
>Kind Regards
>AndrewM
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trusting .deb packages Anil Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2018-07-24 17:50 +0200
  Re: trusting .deb packages Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-07-24 18:50 +0200
    Re: trusting .deb packages Anil Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2018-07-24 20:00 +0200
    Re: trusting .deb packages john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-07-24 20:40 +0200
      Re: trusting .deb packages Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-07-25 07:50 +0200
        Re: trusting .deb packages john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-07-25 11:40 +0200
    Re: trusting .deb packages Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-07-24 23:50 +0200
      Re: trusting .deb packages Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2018-07-25 04:40 +0200
        Re: trusting .deb packages Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-07-25 04:40 +0200
          Re: trusting .deb packages Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-07-25 05:20 +0200
          Re: trusting .deb packages Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-25 05:40 +0200
        Re: trusting .deb packages Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-07-25 07:50 +0200
      Re: trusting .deb packages Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-07-25 08:00 +0200
        Re: trusting .deb packages Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-07-25 16:00 +0200
          Re: trusting .deb packages Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-07-25 17:40 +0200
            Re: trusting .deb packages Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-07-25 17:50 +0200
  Re: trusting .deb packages Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-25 00:00 +0200
    Re: trusting .deb packages Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-25 02:30 +0200
      Re: trusting .deb packages Anil Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2018-07-25 03:10 +0200
        Re: trusting .deb packages Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-25 03:40 +0200

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