Groups > linux.debian.user > #201358

Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

From	Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd
Date	2018-10-17 10:50 +0200
Message-ID	<wJPGG-6YA-11@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 05:28:04PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:18:10AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > > >The packagers, who probably have a better overall view of just
>> > > > what this thing called systemd is, should be speaking up to
>> > > > confirm or dispel this rumor
>
>I thought it was a reasonable question, and I didn't start that rumor.
>Like most however, I am seeing our community shooting at each other and
>I don't like it.

I didn't see a question: I saw an assertion that the systemd packagers
should take some action.

Starting rumors is like being patient 0 in a pandemic It's useful to
know who/where/what patient 0 is/was, but stopping the pandemic means
stopping the carriers.

>The point is that no one from the systemd camp has, to my knowledge,
>posted a list of things it can do better than sysvinit. Point out
>sysvinit's warts, and what systemd does to excise the ugly stuff.
>
>But there has been zero salesmanship that has reached my environment.

My first reaction to this was amazement that you could have missed this
stuff, of which there is plenty. But, on reflection, many people will
have missed it, because of the terrible signal:noise ratio whenever the
topic comes up.

>Why is this? If there is a url explaining this, please post, so the rest
>of us can be educated.

I'm not going to advocate for systemd, and if you want to evaluate it
for your own use, please do so actively, not passively. It would wise
also to ask general questions about it on its own mailing list(s) rather
than here. I will, however, re-post one URI I posted in another reply
(regarding security). It's the twelfth post in a series of in-depth,
technical focus articles that talk about the things you can do with
systemd. If you truly are interested in checking it out, then this
series is a good place to start.

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/security.html

>I'm sure I am not the only one laying back to see the casualty
>list before I commit to diving in head first.

Fair enough holding off on looking at it; but please don't ask people to
spoon-feed the salient points afterwards. Some of us are already
forgetting life under sysvinit, so it's getting harder by the day to try
and answer the question of why we switched in retrospect.

Doing some research would also help you to answer your own question as
to the likelyhood of it being an NSA/Microsoft/alien plot etc.

-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Thread

Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-14 16:40 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-14 18:20 +0200
    Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-14 20:30 +0200
      Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 22:10 +0200
        Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-14 22:30 +0200
          Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-15 10:10 +0200
            Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2018-10-15 10:50 +0200
              OT (as was to be expected) Trolling [was: Pico-report: using Stable  without sysvinit] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-15 11:10 +0200
              Re: Pico-report: using Stable without sysvinit Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 16:50 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2018-10-14 18:20 +0200
    Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-14 18:40 +0200
      Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2018-10-14 19:50 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-10-14 18:30 +0200
    Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-14 19:30 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 22:00 +0200
    Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-10-15 07:20 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-15 15:50 +0200
    Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 16:20 +0200
      Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 11:20 +0200
        Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-16 11:40 +0200
          Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-16 17:40 +0200
            Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 18:20 +0200
              Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 18:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-16 19:10 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 20:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 22:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-17 10:30 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-17 11:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-10-17 12:00 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-17 10:50 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-10-17 14:50 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-17 15:50 +0200
              Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-16 19:10 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-10-16 19:30 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 21:20 +0200
                X11 Forwarding and inet6 support on loopback (Was: Micro-report:  using Stable without systemd) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-10-16 22:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-17 00:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-17 01:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-17 02:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Felmon Davis <davisf@union.edu> - 2018-10-17 08:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 06:00 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-17 07:00 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 09:50 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-18 00:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Morel Bérenger <berenger.morel@sga-automation.com> - 2018-10-17 10:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-17 11:00 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Morel Bérenger <berenger.morel@sga-automation.com> - 2018-10-17 12:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-17 19:20 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Morel Bérenger <berenger.morel@sga-automation.com> - 2018-10-18 12:00 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Morel Bérenger <berenger.morel@sga-automation.com> - 2018-10-17 11:40 +0200
                Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 22:40 +0200
              Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-10-16 21:50 +0200
        Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-10-16 16:40 +0200
          Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 18:10 +0200
            Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2018-10-16 20:40 +0200
  Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Morel Bérenger <berenger.morel@sga-automation.com> - 2018-10-16 21:30 +0200
    Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2018-10-17 11:00 +0200

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