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Groups > linux.debian.user > #200425

Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default

From Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default
Date 2018-09-22 12:40 +0200
Message-ID <wANup-3qD-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <wAtcm-8kA-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <wAwtz-1WX-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <wAyc1-301-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <wAyvo-364-17@gated-at.bofh.it> <wAN1o-3hT-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
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	Hi.

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 06:05:01AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 09:32:45PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:14:03PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 21 Sep 2018 at 19:25:22 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 	Hi.
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 08:55:21AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 08:34:50AM +0530, Subhadip Ghosh wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > 
> > 
> > TCP RST attack requires exactly that. That, and an absence of a
> > firewall.
> > 
> > > There is no point with a standard Debian installation (which is what the
> > > OP inquired about). Debian is already a good netizen.
> > 
> > Good person makes a TCP connection to unprotected (as in - no firewall
> > interference) host. Since there's nothing on a host that does not listen
> > appropriate TCP port - host's kernel sends back TCP RST packet.
> > Good person's connection terminates, everyone's happy. That's how it
> > goes in your typical LAN.
> > 
> Sorry that is not how a RST attack works.
> You send a TCP package two either or both ends where the RST flag is set by
> faking your address. This way mostTCP implementation close the exsisting
> connection. The china firewall works that way. It is a kind of denial of
> service attack.

That's how it goes if you're in-between router.

> If you send a TCP package to a computer not listening it will send a ICMP
> error back.

Does not work that way for me in a single L2 segment:

nmap -sT -p 23 <victim.host.has.no.telnet>

tcpdump -ni <outgoing interface>

13:28:17.826101 IP 10.20.0.1.37928 > 10.20.110.23.23: Flags [S], seq ...269
13:28:17.826111 IP 10.20.110.23.23 > 10.20.0.1.37928: Flags [R.], seq 0, ack ...270

Can I have my ICMP packet please? I can generate those with iptables'
REJECT target, but I get TCP RST only with empty INPUT chain.


> > Evil person makes a TCP connection to unprotected host, but forges
> > source IP. Host sends TCP RST to this forged IP, host acting as a
> > 'reflector' to an attack. And being a bad netizen at the same time.
> > 
> > Evil person takes as many of such hosts as possible - and there goes
> > your old-fashioned RST DDOS.
> > 
> 
> No

Yes. Nobody does it anymore as there are numerous ways of traffic
amplification, but still 'yes'.


> > I recall that you've stated that your servers do not run any kind of
> > packet filter. So, just in case - one cannot harm the reflector that
> > way.
> > 
> 
> On those machines where I run a firewall, I use by default REJECT and not
> DROP. This also sends a ICMP back. In most cases this is desireable.

In a LAN that's definitely desirable. Helps with the troubleshooting and
stuff. Doing this in a WAN makes the host a bad netizen.


> If you
> drop the package without error the TCP sender will just think the package
> was lost and will resend the package. So in most cases REJECT might be
> better than DROP anyway.

I stopped catering for the needs of clearly broken software years ago,
so DROP for WAN is the way.

Reco

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Thread

Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 05:10 +0200
  Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-09-21 05:30 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 05:40 +0200
      Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-09-21 05:50 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 07:10 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 19:40 +0200
      Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-21 19:10 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 19:40 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 20:00 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 20:10 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-09-21 21:40 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-21 21:50 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-09-23 01:10 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-09-23 20:00 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-23 23:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-09-24 00:00 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 09:40 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-22 11:20 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 13:00 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-22 13:40 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 17:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-22 20:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-09-24 05:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-24 05:30 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-24 09:10 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-24 11:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-24 11:40 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-24 14:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-22 20:30 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-22 22:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-22 22:40 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-22 23:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Simon Kengelbacher <simon.kengelbacher@mail.ch> - 2018-09-22 23:50 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-23 00:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Simon Kengelbacher <simon.kengelbacher@mail.ch> - 2018-09-23 00:20 +0200
                SSH X forwarding going awry (Was: Why does Debian allow all incoming  traffic by default) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-23 11:40 +0200
                Re: SSH X forwarding going awry FIXED (Was: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-23 16:10 +0200
                Re: SSH X forwarding going awry FIXED (Was: Why does Debian allow  all incoming traffic by default) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-23 23:00 +0200
                Re: SSH X forwarding going awry FIXED (Was: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-24 04:50 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-24 21:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-23 00:00 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-24 21:00 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-24 21:30 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 15:50 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-26 17:10 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 19:30 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-09-22 15:50 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 16:50 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-24 20:50 +0200
  Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2018-09-21 15:00 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 18:30 +0200
      Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-09-21 20:20 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 20:40 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-09-21 21:10 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:20 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:40 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-09-22 00:10 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 09:10 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-09-22 15:50 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 09:50 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 12:00 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 13:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 13:30 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-22 22:00 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-22 22:20 +0200
                Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 23:40 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2018-09-22 12:10 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 12:40 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 13:10 +0200
    netstat (was: Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 20:00 +0200
      Re: netstat Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 20:20 +0200
        Re: netstat rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 20:50 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-24 20:50 +0200
      Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2018-09-24 21:30 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 15:50 +0200
  Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pablo Álvarez Córdoba <pabloalvarezcordoba@protonmail.ch> - 2018-09-21 18:30 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Subhadip Ghosh <subhadip.sky@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 19:30 +0200
  Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-09-22 00:10 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-22 09:40 +0200
      Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 10:40 +0200
        Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-22 13:20 +0200
          Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-22 17:10 +0200
            Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-09-23 10:50 +0200
              Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-27 14:00 +0200
    Re: Why does Debian allow all incoming traffic by default Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-24 20:50 +0200

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