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Groups > linux.debian.user > #194068

Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet

From Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet
Date 2018-03-23 02:50 +0100
Message-ID <vwk0a-85b-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On 3/22/18 7:14 PM, Richard Hector wrote:

> On 23/03/18 11:31, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Richard Hector wrote:
>>> On 23/03/18 01:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>> RFC 1594 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1594>: A Fully Qualified
>>>> Domain Name (FQDN) is a domain name that includes all higher level
>>>> domains relevant to the entity named.  If you think of the DNS as a
>>>> tree-structure with each node having its own label, a Fully Qualified
>>>> Domain Name for a specific node would be its label followed by the
>>>> labels of all the other nodes between it and the root of the tree.
>>>>
>>>> For example, for a host, a FQDN would include the string that
>>>> identifies the particular host, plus all domains of which the host is
>>>> a part up to and including the top-level domain (the root domain is
>>>> always null).
>>> Thanks - Having read that paragraph of the RFC, it doesn't seem to
>>> require any particular number of levels, only that all that exist are
>>> present.
>>>
>>> Richard
>> It requires two "levels"
>>
>>   1. the TLD itself
>>   2. the named host
>>
>> Therefore, "com." (that is, the TLD 'com') is not a valid FQDN. However,
>> "a.com." (that is, the host 'a' on the 'com' TLD) is a valid FQDN.
> That's not what I see in the RFC. The DNS only seems to care about a
> tree of nodes with labels, not whether a particular node represents a
> host or a network or something else. So if the node in question has the
> label "com", and "All the other nodes" consist of just the root domain
> (with the null label), that should be sufficient. Even just the null
> label followed by (empty list) should be enough. What you say may well
> be what was intended, but it doesn't seem specific to me.
>
> I realise practical considerations may be different, but I don't see any
> more requirement than that in that RFC.
>
Christ, why are we still discussing this.  (And what does it have to do 
with the original question about "Federated, decentralised communication 
on the internet?"  ... which was originally a question about how 
"hostname" is used by Debian)  But...

An FQDN defines the location of an entity in the DNS tree.  For a host - 
which is what we've been discussing, and generally what one is talking 
about when talking about FQDN's an FQDN consists of both a hostname AND 
a domain name.  (Again, in the Linux context, one is generally making 
the distinction between "hostname," "network name," and "fully qualified 
domain name" - often in the context of setting up a machine, or the 
"hostname" and "dnsdomainname" commands, "hostname --fqdn", or the files 
where such information is stored.)

When it comes to hosts, it is generally understood that the FQDN 
consists of both the hostname and domainname, and an awful lot of 
protocol specs cite (and quote) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1983 - 
the "Internet Users' Glossary" which says...

    Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN)
       The FQDN is the full name of a system, rather than just its
       hostname.  For example, "venera" is a hostname and
       "venera.isi.edu" is an FQDN.  See also: hostname, Domain Name
       System.


Now, arguably, "." is an FQDN specifying the very top of the DNS tree, 
and "com" (or "com.") specifies the top of the com domain - but who 
really cares.  Particularly since the whole discussion started around 
fully qualified HOST names.

Another common definition of an FQDN is that it uniquely identifies a 
node in the DNS tree.  By that view "." is the FQDN for the top of the 
tree, and "com" (or "com." is the top of the .com domain - but who 
really cares, except for pedantic purposes.   There aren't any 
nameservers that resolve "." or "com" or "mil" - implying that there are 
no records in the system for them (maybe there should be, but that's 
another question for another day).

Miles Fidelman

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

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Thread

hostname bolakim53@mail2tor.com - 2018-02-15 15:30 +0100
  Re: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-15 15:40 +0100
    Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-15 17:40 +0100
      Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-19 13:30 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-19 14:50 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-20 20:40 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-20 20:50 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-20 21:00 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 01:20 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 01:30 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 01:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 07:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-02-21 11:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-21 13:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-02-21 16:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Frank <zuiderduin@gmx.com> - 2018-02-23 21:00 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 17:30 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 19:40 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-22 19:00 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-23 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-24 04:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-02-26 11:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-26 19:00 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-23 14:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-02-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 17:20 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-23 17:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-20 23:10 +0100
                Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-03-21 00:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest Dean Feighner <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 00:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest Dean Feighner <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 01:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 21:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-03-21 09:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) terryc <terryc@woa.com.au> - 2018-03-21 10:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-22 07:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@surfnaked.ca> - 2018-03-21 16:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 17:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 17:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-03-21 18:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 21:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 23:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 23:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 01:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 01:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 22:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 23:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-03-22 09:40 +0100
                Re: Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet dekks herton <dekkzz78@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 00:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 01:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 00:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 09:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 15:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-21 22:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-21 23:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 01:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 13:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-22 23:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 23:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 00:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 02:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 04:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 02:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 04:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-23 13:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Phil Dobbin <bukowskiscat@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 15:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 17:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 01:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 09:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-22 09:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 18:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 19:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 21:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 03:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 17:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 01:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-24 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-24 14:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 20:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 21:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-03-24 02:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-23 23:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Forest <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 23:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 00:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-24 01:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 02:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-24 02:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 23:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 03:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 11:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 16:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-23 17:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 18:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 20:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 00:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-21 04:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 18:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 02:10 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-02-19 18:30 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:00 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:20 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-02-19 21:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 21:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-19 22:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-19 22:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-19 22:00 +0100
    Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 19:10 +0100
    Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 20:50 +0100
      Re: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-15 21:40 +0100
        Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 23:30 +0100
        Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 23:50 +0100
          Re: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-16 01:30 +0100
          Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 07:50 +0100
        Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-16 00:50 +0100
      Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 22:20 +0100
    Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 20:50 +0100
    Re: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-16 00:20 +0100
      Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-16 01:00 +0100
    hostname Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2018-02-18 09:10 +0100
      Re: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-18 09:50 +0100

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