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Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number"

From Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
Newsgroups comp.mobile.android, uk.telecom.mobile
Subject Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number"
Date 2025-03-17 14:53 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <vr9d22$3mi0m$3@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <cuh*FQB9z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <vr6src$23f7c$1@dont-email.me> <duh*2rC9z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <vr8nul$3mi0m$1@dont-email.me> <vr99gp$8osv$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 17/03/2025 13:53, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2025-03-17 08:53, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 16/03/2025 18:00, Theo wrote:
>>> In uk.telecom.mobile Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, how would he have known the answers to the security questions to
>>>> enable the SIM swap, and his emails were from Virgin Media, while the
>>>> SIM was from O2.  Although not initially, my reading of the original
>>>> article is now unambiguously that the email hack preceded the SIM swap
>>>> and provided the initial personal information necessary to accomplish
>>>> everything that followed.
>>>
>>> Virgin Media O2 are one company - VM and O2 merged June 2021.  I don't know
>>> whether they have merged customer accounts such that the same security
>>> details are used for both.  In which case it may be that one set of details
>>> gives access to both mobile and emails.
>>
>> "If you've linked your Virgin Media and O2 details to create a new Virgin 
>> Media O2 ID, sign in with it here."
>>
>> https://accounts.o2.co.uk/signin
> 
> But Theo's own transcription of events from the BBC Radio documentary makes 
> clear that he had not done so (first and last entries from this excerpt):

  That does not make it clear to me (he would still have an O2 password as 
well as a VM/O2 password).

> In brief:
> - received a text from O2 (mobile operator) saying he'd changed his password
> - contacted O2 straight away and told SIM had been swapped
> - told they'd stop that and send out a new SIM card, emailed to confirm
> - next morning, email from EDF (energy supplier) asking for feedback on 
> recent contact with customer services
> - called EDF, told they'd pass it on to the fraud section and get back to him
> - nothing happened for over a week
> - called O2 again to make sure everything was stopped, put through to fraud 
> department
> - just after received an email saying new SIM card had been sent out,
> connected to a different number.  Queried with fraud department, said 
> didn't know, need to go to an O2 shop
> - O2 shop couldn't do much as account had been stopped, couldn't look at it
> - told them to check his emails
> - contacted Virgin Media (ISP, merged with O2), told he'd changed his 
> password, had to go through changing password back again, told they'd pass 
> it to the fraud section
> 
> It's difficult to deduce from this the exact ordering of events ...
> 
> Because he had to contact VM to find out that he'd changed his email 

  'his password' may be 'his account password' rather than 'his email app 
password'.

> password, rather than them contacting him at the time he did so, we can't 
> tell when his email password was actually changed.  Further, the scammer 
> could have been reading his emails for a while before actually deciding 
> that, as unfolding events began to suggest that the scam was in danger of 
> being closed down, that it was time to change the password in an attempt to 
> prolong it.  Most probably his email account would have been compromised 
> around the same time as all the other stages of the scam, yet "nothing 
> happened for over a week" before he discovered it, and, in between, he 
> received emails from both EDF and O2.
> 
> However, I still think that some identifying personal information would 
> have been necessary to enable the SIM swap, and most probably this came 
> from the email hack occurring earlier.

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Thread

"'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 12:27 +0000
  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 10:47 -0500
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:13 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:33 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 18:20 +0000
  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-03 15:54 +0000
  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 17:25 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-03 17:38 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 14:04 -0500
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:28 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:36 +0100
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:35 +0100
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:35 -0500
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-04 02:49 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:07 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-03 22:58 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-04 02:50 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-03 21:23 -0700
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-04 06:43 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-04 09:22 -0700
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 16:40 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-04 10:21 -0700
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 18:37 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 14:46 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:31 -0500
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:13 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 08:09 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 16:22 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 21:09 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 19:43 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 05:34 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:22 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:15 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 09:44 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:15 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:47 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 14:27 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 10:42 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 16:51 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:21 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 12:37 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-05 18:03 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:00 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 22:07 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 15:42 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:28 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 18:23 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:01 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 21:03 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:40 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:02 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:04 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:12 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:29 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 17:38 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:25 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:44 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:45 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:57 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-05 14:10 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:26 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:33 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:08 +0100
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 19:25 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:43 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 21:26 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0100
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 20:54 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 07:19 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:31 +0100
  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 01:56 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 13:54 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-03-06 14:57 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-06 11:09 -0500
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-06 11:17 -0700
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:12 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-07 09:35 -0700
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 18:24 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:36 +0100
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:17 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 16:16 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-08 10:30 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 16:37 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:53 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 07:37 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 10:46 +0100
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-07 13:24 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:38 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:35 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:46 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-14 18:49 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-15 09:53 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 11:46 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:35 -0400
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 17:53 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-15 19:27 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 23:30 -0400
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-16 05:01 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-16 08:47 -0400
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 13:47 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 15:13 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:04 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 18:00 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 08:53 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 13:53 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 14:53 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 18:44 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 10:42 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:48 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 13:18 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 13:27 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 14:28 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-20 16:02 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-20 13:00 -0400
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-16 11:54 -0400
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:09 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-16 19:23 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-16 23:10 +0100
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:48 -0400

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