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Groups > linux.debian.user > #192978

Re: domain names, was: hostname

From Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: domain names, was: hostname
Date 2018-02-23 17:20 +0100
Message-ID <vmoeK-6AP-11@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <vjuJI-58K-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <vkSJX-2V1-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <vkWue-5kM-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <vkYw2-6Dg-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <vm3jX-89a-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Thu 22 Feb 2018 at 11:58:18 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 19 Feb 2018 at 18:39:02 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 19 Feb 2018 at 10:23:56 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > > 127.0.0.1       localhost
> > > 127.0.1.1       alum
> > 
> > alum is the canonical_hostname. It is used by exim to HELO with. Many
> > mail servers will not accept mail directly from you because it is not a
> > FQDN.
> 
> This is why I wrote "broken" at ². The OP wrote "on a home LAN",
> in which case it's unlikely that they relay mail to mail servers
> on port 25. More likely is that they use a smarthost with a mail
> submission system on port 587 or possibly 465 (though 25 is
> allowed for broken senders³).

Not using a smarthost does not invalidate the claim.
 
> As submission involves obligatory authentication, there's no reason
> to reject a submission just because the HELO has no dot in it. And
> even if a sender screws up the envelope-from, it's likely that the
> mail submission knows a valid email address associated with the
> authenticator's registration details.

With

 127.0.1.1       gmail

in /etc/hosts the conversation would go like this:

  brian@desktop:~$ telnet bendel.debian.org 25
  Trying 82.195.75.100...
  Connected to bendel.debian.org.
  Escape character is '^]'.
  220 bendel.debian.org ESMTP Postfix
  helo gmail
  250 bendel.debian.org
  mail from:<someone@debian.org>
  250 2.1.0 Ok
  rcpt to:<debian-user@lists.debian.org>
  504 5.5.2 <gmail>: Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname

gmail.com is ok with bendel.

OTOH:

  brian@desktop:~$ telnet cloud11.unlimitedwebhosting.co.uk 25
  Trying 149.255.60.164...
  Connected to cloud11.unlimitedwebhosting.co.uk.
  Escape character is '^]'.
  220 cloud11.unlimitedwebhosting.co.uk ESMTP Postfix
  helo gmail
  250 cloud11.unlimitedwebhosting.co.uk
  mail from:<someone@debian.org>
  250 2.1.0 Ok
  rcpt to:<deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
  250 2.1.5 Ok
  data
  354 End data with <CR><LF>.<CR><LF>

cloud11.unlimitedwebhosting.co.uk appears not to be bothered by the
helo; bendel is.

> > > I've sometimes wondered what other people dream up as their
> > > domainnames; that is, people who don't have a legitimate reason
> > > to put something like example.com.
> > 
> > Whatever is dreamt up as a domain name is put into /etc/hosts by the
> > installer as
> > 
> > 127.0.1.1   alum.dreamtup    alum
> 
> And what is the benefit for the mail submission system in being woken
> up with   HELO alum.dreamtup   rather than   HELO alum   ?
> Extra brownie points for imagination perhaps.

Most large ISPs presumably do not see any benefit as they basically
ignore an RFC non-compliant helo. The large number of broken mailers
about might be a reason. I'm not prepared to risk having mail rejected
because the canonical_hostname is not a FQDN known in the DNS.

-- 
Brian.

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Thread

hostname bolakim53@mail2tor.com - 2018-02-15 15:30 +0100
  Re: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-15 15:40 +0100
    Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-15 17:40 +0100
      Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-19 13:30 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-19 14:50 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-20 20:40 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-20 20:50 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-02-20 21:00 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 01:20 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 01:30 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 01:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 07:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-02-21 11:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-21 13:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 13:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-02-21 16:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Frank <zuiderduin@gmx.com> - 2018-02-23 21:00 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 17:30 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 19:40 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-22 19:00 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-23 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-24 04:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-02-26 11:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-26 19:00 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-23 14:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-02-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 17:20 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-23 17:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-20 23:10 +0100
                Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-03-21 00:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest Dean Feighner <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 00:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest Dean Feighner <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Forest <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 01:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 21:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-03-21 09:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) terryc <terryc@woa.com.au> - 2018-03-21 10:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-22 07:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@surfnaked.ca> - 2018-03-21 16:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 17:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 17:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-03-21 18:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 21:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-21 23:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 23:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 01:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 01:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-21 22:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 23:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-03-22 09:40 +0100
                Re: Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet dekks herton <dekkzz78@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 00:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 01:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 00:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 09:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-22 15:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-21 22:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 22:40 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-21 23:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 01:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 13:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-22 23:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 23:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 00:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 02:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 04:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 02:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-23 04:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-23 13:30 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Phil Dobbin <bukowskiscat@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 15:10 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 17:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 01:00 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 09:20 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-22 09:50 +0100
                Re: Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was:  domain names, was: hostname) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 18:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-22 19:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 21:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 03:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 17:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 01:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-03-24 14:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-24 14:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 20:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 21:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-03-24 02:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 02:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-23 23:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Forest <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 23:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 00:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-24 01:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-24 02:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-24 02:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-22 23:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 03:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 11:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 16:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-03-23 17:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-03-23 18:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 20:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 00:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-21 04:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 18:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-21 21:10 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-22 02:10 +0100
        Re: domain names, was: hostname Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-02-19 18:30 +0100
          Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:00 +0100
            Re: domain names, was: hostname Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:20 +0100
              Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 20:30 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-02-19 21:40 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-02-19 21:50 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-19 22:00 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-19 22:20 +0100
                Re: domain names, was: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-19 22:00 +0100
    Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 19:10 +0100
    Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 20:50 +0100
      Re: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-15 21:40 +0100
        Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 23:30 +0100
        Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 23:50 +0100
          Re: hostname Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-02-16 01:30 +0100
          Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 07:50 +0100
        Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-16 00:50 +0100
      Re: hostname deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 22:20 +0100
    Re: hostname Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 20:50 +0100
    Re: hostname David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-16 00:20 +0100
      Re: hostname Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-02-16 01:00 +0100
    hostname Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2018-02-18 09:10 +0100
      Re: hostname Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-02-18 09:50 +0100

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