Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped

From	Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped
Date	2018-02-12 03:30 +0100
Message-ID	<vic2u-2qA-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <vhkv8-6rO-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <vhkEO-6xb-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <vhl7Q-6LX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <vhmwV-7T3-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <vhmGB-7WF-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Fri, 2018-02-09 at 14:35:15 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:22 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 09, 2018 at 06:58:49PM +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
> >> If Ubuntu uses an epoch without Debian following that decision, they can
> >> never sync with Debian again, increasing the maintenance burden
> >> indefinitely.

> > See e.g. libpulse0 (pulseaudio), sadly (I needed to repack a $job package
> > and fix the Depends line to use the package on Debian because of that).
> 
> Would it hurt to take those epoch bumps into Debian?

Depends on what you mean by hurt. I see epochs being used w/o much
tought or care, on many situations where they are not supposed to be
used, and they are permanent stigmas. In addition to
<https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/04/msg00203.html>, they
also reset the monotonic versioning increment, marking version
barriers at which points making comparisons becomes useless.

IMO pushing epoch bumps upstream, or doing epoch bump races to compete
with external or third-party repositories (like what happened with the
debian-multimedia packages) would be a mistake, because as I mentioned
on that referenced mail, we'd be dependent on epoch blunders from all
our downstreams, and might end up with such a mess of our version
space to make it unusable.

> The background is that gcalctool 6.4 was renamed upstream to
> gnome-calculator 3.7. An overhauled upstream version numbering system
> seemed a pretty clear case for adding an epoch. A month after this
> landed in Ubuntu, the Debian packaging used a dh_gencontrol hack to
> only use an epoch for the transitional package gcalctool allowing the
> rest of gnome-calculator to avoid an epoch. Pretty cool trick except
> that it just causes extra work in Ubuntu multiple times a year.

This is not a hack, this is how it's supposed to be done. dpkg has
supported different source and binary versions for a very long time,
if not forever.

Thanks,
Guillem

Thread

Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-02-05 16:50 +0100
  Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Matt Zagrabelny <mzagrabe@d.umn.edu> - 2018-02-05 17:00 +0100
  Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-05 17:10 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 09:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 14:30 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 23:30 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 13:20 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2018-02-07 11:10 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 18:00 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Seth Arnold <seth.arnold@canonical.com> - 2018-02-08 00:50 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 13:10 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 13:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 17:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 18:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 19:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 19:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 20:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 20:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 03:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 13:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 14:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@ubuntu.com> - 2018-02-14 14:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-14 15:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 19:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-14 20:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 22:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 23:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 12:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Ladeuil <v.ladeuil+debian@free.fr> - 2018-02-15 15:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-16 03:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Dimitri John Ledkov <xnox@debian.org> - 2018-03-12 12:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Cédric Boutillier <boutil@debian.org> - 2018-03-12 18:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 01:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 21:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Matt Zagrabelny <mzagrabe@d.umn.edu> - 2018-02-14 21:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-02-15 08:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 09:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-02-15 09:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 13:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 14:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Thibaut Paumard <thibaut@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 15:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 14:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 16:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 17:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2018-02-14 18:30 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2018-02-15 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-02-14 15:10 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-14 15:50 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-09 19:40 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 03:20 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 15:00 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2018-02-06 15:20 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-02-12 09:40 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 14:40 +0100
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 15:00 +0100
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-06 16:20 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 14:00 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-02-07 15:00 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-08 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-08 12:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 21:00 +0100
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-09 23:10 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 16:40 +0100
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 11:00 +0100
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 11:50 +0100
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2018-02-07 12:30 +0100
    Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org> - 2018-03-28 22:20 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 00:00 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2018-03-29 00:30 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 01:00 +0200
      Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 19:10 +0200
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-03-29 20:00 +0200
        Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2018-03-30 13:30 +0200
          Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 20:40 +0200
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 21:10 +0200
            Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2018-04-02 21:50 +0200
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2018-04-03 05:10 +0200
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped James McCoy <jamessan@debian.org> - 2018-04-03 05:20 +0200
              Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped "Christian T. Steigies" <cts@debian.org> - 2018-04-07 20:10 +0200
                Re: Debian part of a version number when epoch is bumped Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-04-09 15:30 +0200

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