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Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024?

From Coogan's Bluff <ft.tryon@park.invalid>
Newsgroups rec.food.cooking
Subject Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024?
Date 2024-11-15 14:45 -0700
Message-ID <vh8fe1$7sah$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References <aeb7171f68ce05f8e17a161733998e17@www.novabbs.com> <7eaefdb4bbf9f6a660a329202f33f128@www.novabbs.org> <13328ef6-ad83-3a11-737b-3a3a6c9b189c@example.net> <vh861g$7nm4$1@solani.org> <2f495908-8f2d-c5be-93cc-ab8316819270@example.net>

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D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2024, Coogan's Bluff wrote:
> 
>>>
>>> Good stuff! I had a tonkatsu poke bowl and it was good. The only 
>>> drawback is too much sallad and mushroom which they use to camouflage 
>>> the inflation here. There just was an election here and the 
>>> socialists won, so now we are looking forward to tax increases. In 
>>> fact, the woke government that just left are doing their share as 
>>> well by doubling the VAT on food, so a lot of small restaurants are 
>>> currently closing.
>>>
>>> Classics waiting us later next year are a new progressive income tax 
>>> and increase corporation tax.
>>>
>>> Europe seldom fails to disappoint the greedy socialists of the world! ;)
>>
>> That's a succinct and sad summary of socialism's solipsism.
>>
>> And I call it that because as the collectivists go, it's always about 
>> their group-think, not the impact it will have on their nation.
> 
> Amen!
> 
> Today I heard a story about a businessman in lithuania who told the new
> government "f*ck you, I'm leaving" because apparently he had been trying
> to build a factory that would bring 6000 jobs, and the government, both
> the previous and the new, have been fighting him on every single level,
> since he is not a party member. So when the new government only spoke
> about increasing taxes, he said, "I'm done".
> 
> I think if more business men would be equally principled, taxes would
> come down rather quickly. As it is, they remain sycophants in the hope
> of receiving benefits from the party in power.

Really good trickle-not analysis there.

Here's a timely piece by a disgraced NYT columinist pondering why "they" 
lost the people this election:

https://archive.is/2V2Cw

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/opinion/identity-groups-politics.html


By David Brooks
Opinion Columnist


Why were so many of our expectations wrong? Well, we all walk around 
with mental models of reality in our heads. Our mental models help us 
make sense of the buzzing, blooming confusion of the world. Our mental 
models help us anticipate what’s about to happen. Our mental models 
guide us as we make decisions about how to get the results we want.
Many of us are walking around with broken mental models. Many of us go 
through life with false assumptions about how the world works.
Where did we get our current models? Well, we get models from our 
experience, our peers, the educational system, the media and popular 
culture. Over the past few generations, a certain worldview that 
emphasizes racial, gender and ethnic identity has been prevalent in the 
circles where highly educated people congregate. This worldview emerged 
from the wonderful liberation movements that highlighted American life 
over the past seven decades: the civil rights movement, the women’s 
liberation movement, the gay rights movement, the trans rights movement.
The crucial assertion of the identitarian mind-set is that all politics 
and all history can be seen through the lens of liberation movements. 
Society is divided between the privileged (straight white males) and the 
marginalized (pretty much everyone else). History and politics are the 
struggle between oppressors and oppressed groups.
In this model, people are seen as members of a group before they are 
seen as individuals. When Biden picked his running mate in 2020 and his 
Supreme Court nominee in 2022, he told us he was going to pick a Black 
woman before he decided who it was going to be. In both cases her 
identity grouping came before her individual qualities.
In this model, society is seen as an agglomeration of different 
communities. Democrats thus produce separate agendas designed to 
mobilize Black men, women and so on. The goal of Democratic politics is 
to link all the oppressed and marginalized groups into one majority 
coalition.
In this model, individual cognition is de-emphasized while collective 
consciousness is emphasized. Groups are assumed to be relatively 
homogeneous. People are seen as representatives of their community. 
Standpoint epistemology reigns. This is the idea that a person’s ideas 
are primarily shaped not by individual preferences but by the experience 
of the group. It makes sense to say, “Speaking as a gay Hispanic man …” 
because a person’s thoughts are assumed to be dispatches from a communal 
experience.
This identity politics mind-set is psychologically and morally 
compelling. In an individualistic age, it gives people a sense of 
membership in a group. It helps them organize their lives around a noble 
cause, fighting oppression.
But this mind-set has just crashed against the rocks of reality. This 
model assumes that people are primarily motivated by identity group 
solidarity. This model assumes that the struggle against oppressive 
systems and groups is the central subject of politics. This model has no 
room for what just happened.
It turns out a lot of people don’t behave like ambassadors from this or 
that group. They think for themselves in unexpected ways.
It turns out that many people don’t see politics and history through the 
paradigm of liberation movements. They are concerned with all kinds of 
issues that don’t fit into the good-versus-evil mind-set of oppressor 
versus oppressed: How do you fix inflation? How can we bring down crime? 
What should our policy on Ukraine be?

...

This is a time when we all should be updating our mental models and 
making our view of society more complex. And I’m seeing a lot of that 
around me as people try to learn from what just happened.
But I’m also seeing many people who are still victims of conceptual 
blindness. They are so imprisoned by their mental models, they can 
interpret these results only in identity politics terms: Harris lost 
because America is racist (even though she did virtually the same as 
Biden did among white voters). Harris lost because America is sexist 
(even though she underperformed among women). Some people blamed white 
women for abandoning their Black sisters, as if lack of gender 
solidarity were the main thing going on here.
Identitarian takes are strewn across the media. The New Yorker ran an 
analysis piece headlined “How America Embraced Gender War.” Slate ran a 
piece called “Men Got Exactly What They Wanted.” The Guardian ran a 
piece called “Our Mistake Was to Think We Lived in a Better Country Than 
We Do.” If the election didn’t come out the way we wanted, it must be 
because of their groups’ bigotry against our groups.
As I try to update my own models, a few stray thoughts enter my mind. 
First, you don’t reduce racial, ethnic and gender bigotry by raising the 
salience of these categories and by exaggerating the differences between 
groups. Second, integration is better than separatism. Diverse societies 
prosper when people in different categories cooperate in respectful ways 
on a day-to-day basis, not when we divide people into supposedly 
homogeneous enclaves. Third, assimilation is not a dirty word, as long 
as it’s voluntary; it’s not a sin to feel that your love for America 
transcends your love for your ethnic group, and you don’t really love 
America if you despise half its people. Fourth, most of the world’s 
problems are caused by stupidity and human limitation, not because 
there’s some malevolently brilliant group of oppressors keeping 
everybody else down.
Fifth, seeing groups in all their complexity requires seeing individuals 
in all their complexity. To see people well, you have to see what makes 
them unique. You also have to see which groups they belong to. You also 
have to see their social location — where they fit in the economic, 
social and status hierarchies. When you’re able to see people at all 
three levels of reality, you’re beginning to see them holistically.
Finally, we need a social vision that doesn’t rely on zero-sum us/them 
thinking. During his first term, Trump unleashed a cultural assault 
based on his version of identity politics. The left responded by 
doubling down on its identitarian mind-set. We have to do better this time.
In 1959 the British jurist Patrick Devlin made a point that should haunt 
us: “Without shared ideas on politics, morals and ethics, no society can 
exist.” He added, “If men and women try to create a society in which 
there is no fundamental agreement about good and evil, they will fail; 
if having based it on common agreement, the agreement goes, the society 
will disintegrate.”
We need a social vision that is as morally compelling as identity 
politics but does a better job of describing reality. We need a national 
narrative that points us to some ideal and gives each of us a noble role 
in pursuing it. That’s the gigantic cultural task that lies ahead.


> 
>> "The $5 chicken was over $9.
>>
>> As it currently is, I have a hard time seeing Costco survive in 
>> Sweden. That breaks my heart, as I would love to have the Costco I've 
>> always heard about. Their current offer is for us to pay a membership 
>> fee that allows us to drive to a remote location and pay between 
>> 80-300% of normal prices for things. This feels like a scam to me."
>>
>> I can believe it must!
>>
>> Ya'll deserve a lot LESS giverment than you're again voting for...
>>
>> :-/
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/dxJA7Bo/
> 
> Amen! We must pray and pray hard, that sweden will some tiem get its own
> Trump! Only a man with Trumps powers and characteristics will ever be
> able to uproot the ingrained socialism from swedish society!

Do you think that will be harder or easier for Sweden?

I ask that in the consideration that you've a royal family that now seem 
mere figureheads at best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Sweden

Eriksgata was the name of the traditional journey of newly elected 
medieval Swedish kings through important provinces to have their 
election confirmed by local Things. The actual election took place at 
the Stone of Mora in Uppland and participation was originally restricted 
to the people of that area; hence, the need of having the election 
confirmed by the other parts of the realm. The Eriksgata gradually lost 
its importance when, as of the 14th century, representatives of other 
parts of Sweden began to participate in the election. After 1544, when 
hereditary monarchy was instituted, that meant that the Eriksgata had 
little practical importance. The last king to travel the Eriksgata 
according to the old tradition was Charles IX, whose reign began in 
1604. Later, kings, up until present times, have made visits to all the 
Swedish provinces and called them an Eriksgata, while those visits bear 
little resemblance to the medieval tradition.

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It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) - 2024-11-14 17:39 +0000
  Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2024-11-14 14:54 -0500
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    Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? Coogan's Bluff <ft.tryon@park.invalid> - 2024-11-15 12:26 -0700
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      Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? Coogan's Bluff <ft.tryon@park.invalid> - 2024-11-16 08:21 -0700
  Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? dsi100@yahoo.com (dsi1) - 2024-11-24 19:19 +0000
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      Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? dsi100@yahoo.com (dsi1) - 2024-11-24 22:42 +0000
        Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? clams casino <cc@invalid.cc> - 2024-11-24 15:52 -0700
        Re: It's Early, But Will You Have for Dinner Tonight, Thursday, 11/14/2024? "Carol" <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> - 2024-11-25 21:14 +0000

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