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Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES

From Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES
Date 2024-06-20 08:05 +0300
Organization -
Message-ID <v50dbn$2e5ko$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <v4s07h$1boeu$5@dont-email.me> <v4sb8k$1e266$2@dont-email.me> <v4sl6p$1g2ci$1@dont-email.me> <v4u5at$1sof1$1@dont-email.me> <v4unbc$1vpm0$8@dont-email.me>

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On 2024-06-19 13:44:12 +0000, olcott said:

> On 6/19/2024 3:36 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-18 18:55:21 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 6/18/2024 11:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-18 12:57:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/18/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-17 13:03:56 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 6/17/2024 2:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-16 12:47:09 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 2:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-15 16:22:09 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>>  >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes
>>>>>>>>>>>  >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to
>>>>>>>>>>>  >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by
>>>>>>>>>>>  >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the
>>>>>>>>>>>  >> behavior of the directly executed D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>  > Why? I don't claim it can.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The first six steps of this mapping are when instructions
>>>>>>>>>>> at the machine address range of [00000cfc] to [00000d06]
>>>>>>>>>>> are simulated/executed.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> After that the behavior of D correctly simulated by H diverges
>>>>>>>>>>> from the behavior of D(D) because the call to H(D,D) by D
>>>>>>>>>>> correctly simulated by H cannot possibly return to D.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _D()
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00000d1d](01) c3          ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> When you put "V2" or "V3" or something similar on the subject line
>>>>>>>>>> you should tell what is different from the original version.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I ask what are the steps
>>>>>>>>> I provide 6 steps and then ask what are the next steps.
>>>>>>>>> I provide all of the steps.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In which version?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *This is the simplest possible version*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>    H0(DDD);
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> After six steps of DDD are correctly emulated by H0
>>>>>>> what machine address of DDD would it be at?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>> [00001fd2] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00001fd3] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00001fd5] 68d21f0000       push 00001fd2 ; push DDD
>>>>>>> [00001fda] e8f3f9ffff       call 000019d2 ; call H0
>>>>>>> [00001fdf] 83c404           add esp,+04   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00001fe2] 5d               pop ebp       ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00001fe3] c3               ret           ; return to caller
>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00001fe3]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So how is this a difference between the original version and V2 and V3?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> No params thus easier to see that it pushes its own machine address.
>>>> 
>>>> My question is still unanswered.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> When I answer the question that the difference
>>> is that one of them had parameters and the other one
>>> does not have parameters it is dishonest of you
>>> to say that I did not answer the question.
>> 
>> The qestion is not answered until you say which of the three versions
>> has parameters and which has not and how the third one differs from
>> the one that has parameters and from the one that nas not.
>> 
> 
> typedef void (*ptr)();
> int H0(ptr P);
> int H(ptr P, ptr I);
> 
> void DDD()
> {
>    H0(DDD);
> }
> 
> void DDDD(ptr x)
> {
>    H(x,x);
> }
> 
> That seems to be saying that you don't know enough about the C
> programming language to know what a parameter is thus cannot
> tell the difference between DDD that has no parameters and DDDD
> that had one parameter.

My question is still unanswered. Apparently you do not undestand
the concept of question.

-- 
Mikko

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H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:22 -0500
  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:33 -0400
    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 16:56 -0500
      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:01 -0400
        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 18:30 -0500
          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:37 -0400
            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 19:05 -0500
              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 20:13 -0400
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 19:48 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 21:19 -0400
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 20:42 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 21:58 -0400
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-16 11:00 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 07:48 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 13:30 -0400
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-17 10:19 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 07:57 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 11:01 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:48 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:04 +0300
  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-16 10:53 +0300
    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 07:47 -0500
      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 13:30 -0400
      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-17 10:20 +0300
        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 08:03 -0500
          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 18:46 -0400
          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 11:03 +0300
            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:57 -0500
              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:05 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 13:55 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-19 11:36 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:44 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:05 +0300
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:19 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 14:04 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 09:58 +0200
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 07:58 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 15:46 +0200
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:55 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:39 +0200
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:46 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-19 16:29 +0000
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:07 -0500
                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 09:53 +0200

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