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Groups > comp.theory > #107096
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works |
| Date | 2024-06-13 22:48 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <v4gb2c$3tn6r$5@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (13 earlier) <v4ca5c$1mi5i$1@dont-email.me> <v4cjau$1ob9b$1@dont-email.me> <v4ck7s$1o4b4$3@dont-email.me> <v4e2u8$24lla$1@dont-email.me> <v4eo87$28g4v$1@dont-email.me> |
On 6/13/24 8:21 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 1:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-12 17:00:44 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/12/2024 11:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-12 14:08:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-12 12:44:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 2:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-11 16:06:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 2:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-10 14:43:34 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 2:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-09 18:40:16 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 1:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 1:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 1:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2024 10:36 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This has direct application to undecidable decision
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entails that if there is nothing in the universe that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes expression X
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> X may be untrue because X is false. In that case ~X
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now we have the means to unequivocally define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth-bearer. X is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth-bearer iff (if and only if) X or ~X has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working in this same area as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-academician for a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. I have only focused on expressions of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are {true on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of their meaning}.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that truthmaker and truthbearer are fully anchored
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is easy to see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that self-contradictory expressions are simply not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthbearers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “This sentence is not true” can't be true because that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would make it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> untrue and it can't be false because that would make it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Within the the definition of truthmaker specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> above: “this sentence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has no truthmaker” is simply not a truthbearer. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't be true within
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the above specified definition of truthmaker because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this would make it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It can't be false because that makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless the system is inconsistent, in which case they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I specify the ultimate foundation of all truth then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does apply to truth in logic, truth in math and truth in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not for Formal system, which have a specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of its truth-makers, unless you let your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition become trivial for Formal logic where a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "truth-makers" is what has been defined to be the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "truth-makers" for the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Formal systems are free to define their own truthmakers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When these definitions result in inconsistency they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> proved to be incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A formal system can be inconsistent without being incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Three laws of logic apply to all propositions*
>>>>>>>>>>> ¬(p ∧ ¬p) Law of non-contradiction
>>>>>>>>>>> (p ∨ ¬p) Law of excluded middle
>>>>>>>>>>> p = p Law of identity
>>>>>>>>>>> *No it cannot*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those laws do not constrain formal systems. Each formal system
>>>>>>>>>> specifies
>>>>>>>>>> its own laws, which include all or some or none of those.
>>>>>>>>>> Besides, a the
>>>>>>>>>> word "proposition" need not be and often is not used in the
>>>>>>>>>> specification
>>>>>>>>>> of a formal system.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *This is the way that truth actually works*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as is empirially known. But a formal system is not
>>>>>>>> limited by
>>>>>>>> the limitations of our empirical knowledge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there really is nothing anywhere that makes expression
>>>>>>> of language X true then X is untrue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That does not restrict what a formal system can say.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a formal system says:
>>>>> "cats <are> fifteen story office buildings"
>>>>> this formal system is wrong.
>>>>
>>>> No, it is not. If you inteprete a sentence of that language
>>>
>>> *Correct interpretation is hardwired into the formal language*
>>> {cats} and {office buildings} are specified by 128-bit GUIDs.
>>
>> Both of those claims are false about typical formal systems.
>>
>
> When we define formal systems this way all ambiguity and vagueness is
> eliminated. This is best exemplified in formalized English.
>
> When I say I am going to drive my {cat}. this could mean
> Transport(pet, veterinarian) operate(earth_moving_equipment).
> When each sense meaning of every term has its own GUID then we
> don't have to "interpret" what is mean this is fully specified.
>
Yes, English (or Natural Langage in general) is a very bad basis to
Formaliz a system on, as the word shave too many ambiquities in meaning.
Which is why they tend to develop a very FORMAL (i.e. not Natural)
Language to express themselves in.
Your problem is you never learned the formal meaning, so you keep on
misinterpreting the words.
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Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 10:36 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:18 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:13 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:29 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:40 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:54 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 15:36 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 21:47 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 22:56 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 22:12 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 07:16 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 11:09 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 23:32 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 12:30 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 19:22 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:43 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:34 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 21:58 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 23:01 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:20 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 10:40 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:49 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 19:44 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 20:57 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:37 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:01 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:21 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:32 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:42 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:53 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:15 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:17 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:51 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 23:01 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 07:30 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:32 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:45 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 22:50 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 07:39 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 08:58 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-10 10:19 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 09:52 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-11 10:57 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 23:00 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-10 10:13 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 09:43 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-11 10:45 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 11:06 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 21:44 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 20:57 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:37 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:17 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 08:05 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:55 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:16 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:48 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-12 10:13 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 07:44 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-12 16:41 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 09:08 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-12 19:45 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 12:00 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-13 09:17 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 07:21 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-13 18:40 +0300
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 11:17 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:48 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 21:44 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-09 17:40 +0000
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 12:52 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:08 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:10 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:31 -0400
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 13:48 -0500
Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-09 14:57 -0400
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