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Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)

From Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups sci.logic
Subject Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)
Date 2024-05-27 11:00 +0300
Organization -
Message-ID <v31eit$3ugn4$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (27 earlier) <v2qp30$2f6v4$1@dont-email.me> <v2s5td$2psu4$1@dont-email.me> <v2t9ne$2vna0$5@dont-email.me> <v2usea$3be7o$1@dont-email.me> <v2veqj$3e8pb$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2024-05-26 13:52:17 +0000, olcott said:

> On 5/26/2024 3:38 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-05-25 18:13:02 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 5/25/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-24 19:16:47 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/24/2024 3:18 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-23 13:32:51 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5/23/2024 3:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-23 01:03:44 +0000, Richard Damon said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/24 7:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 6:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/24 3:52 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 11:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-22 15:55:39 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 2:57 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-21 14:36:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2024 3:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-20 17:48:40 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2024 2:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-19 14:15:51 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2024 9:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-19 13:41:56 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2024 6:55 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 6:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 6:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 5:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 4:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 2:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 11:56 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 12:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 9:32 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 7:43 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, your system contradicts itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have never shown this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The most you have shown is a lack of understanding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth Teller Paradox.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I have, but you don't understand the proof, it seems because you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know what a "Truth Predicate" has been defined to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My True(L,x) predicate is defined to return true or false for every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite string x on the basis of the existence of a sequence of truth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preserving operations that derive x from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And thus, When True(L, p) established a sequence of truth preserving 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operations eminationg from ~True(L, p) by returning false, it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicts itself. The problem is that True, in making an answer of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false, has asserted that such a sequence exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> On 5/13/2024 7:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>> Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> to expressions that are stipulated to be true derive p?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > No, so True(L, p) is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> to expressions that are stipulated to be true derive ~p?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > No, so False(L, p) is false,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To help you concentrate I repeated this*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Liar Paradox and your formalized Liar Paradox both
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradict themselves that is why they must be screened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out as type mismatch error non-truth-bearers *BEFORE THAT OCCURS*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the Truth Predicate isn't allowed to "filter" out expressions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT IT DOESN'T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE FORMAL SYSTEM USES THE TRUE AND FALSE PREDICATE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TO FILTER OUT TYPE MISMATCH ERROR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing that the formal system does with any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary finite string input is see if it is a Truth-bearer:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, we can ask True(L, x) for any expression x and get an answer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is designed so you can ask this, yet non-truth-bearers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rejected before True(L, x) is allowed to be called.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not allowed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My True(L,x) predicate is defined to return true or false for every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite string x on the basis of the existence of a sequence of truth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preserving operations that derive x from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A set of finite string semantic meanings that form an accurate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> verbal model of the general knowledge of the actual world that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form a finite set of finite strings that are stipulated to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the semantic value of Boolean true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for a statement x to be false, it says that there must be a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sequence of truth perserving operations that derive ~x from, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes we must build from mutual agreement, good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So do you still say that for p defined in L as ~True(L, p) that your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition will say that True(L, p) will return false?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is the perfectly isomorphic to this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(English, "This sentence is not true")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, Because "This sentece is not true" can be a non-truth-bearer, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by its definition, True(L, x) can not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L,x) is always a truth bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when x is defined as True(L,x) then x is not a truth bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When x is defined as True(L,x) then x is what True(L,x) is,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this case a truth bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is known as the Truth Teller Paradox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter. But ir you say that "x is not a truth bearer" then,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by a truth preserving transformation, you imply that True(L,x) is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(English, "a cat is an animal) is true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP) expands to ~True(~True(~True(~True(...))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it doesn't. It is a syntax error to have the same symbol on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both sides ":=" so the expansion is not justified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ϕ(x) there is a sentence ψ such that S ⊢ ψ ↔ ϕ⟨ψ⟩.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *The sentence ψ is of course not self-referential in a strict sense*,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but mathematically it behaves like one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/self-reference/#ConSemPar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your quote omitted important details. One is that the claim is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true about every theory but is about first order arithmetic and its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extension. Another one is that ϕ(x) is that the claim is about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every formula ϕ(x).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *The whole article is about self-reference*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ONLY detail that I am referring to is that it is conventional to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formalize self-reference incorrectly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Richard and both fixed that*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> On 5/13/2024 7:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>> Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x := y means x is defined to be another name for y
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another name for the meaning of y. Therefore any pair of sentences that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are otherwise equal but one contains x where rhe other contains y is a pair
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of equally true sentences. For example, if p defined as ~True(L, ⟨p⟩)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no idea what you mean by the weird ⟨p⟩ quotes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY FREAKING Gödel NUMBERS
>>>>>>>>>>>> I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY FREAKING Gödel NUMBERS
>>>>>>>>>>>> I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY FREAKING Gödel NUMBERS
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I AM TALKING ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF
>>>>>>>>>>>> AN ACTUAL SEQUENCE OF TRUTH PRESERVING OPERATIONS FROM
>>>>>>>>>>>> EXPRESSIONS OF LANGUAGE KNOWN TO BE TRUE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So, you aren't talking about Tarski's proof of the impossibility to 
>>>>>>>>>>> define a Truth Predicate per his definition?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then Truthbearer(L,p) has the same truth value as Truthbearer(L,~True(L, ⟨p⟩)).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> When p defined as ~True(L, p)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then ~True(L, p) is true, thus a truth-bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Which means that True(L, p) is false, so your True just erred in 
>>>>>>>>>>> describing a true statement as false.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Remeber, you just said that ~True(L, p) which has been given the name 
>>>>>>>>>>> of p IS a truth-bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *You are just not paying close enough attention again*
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> When p defined as ~True(L, p)
>>>>>>>>>>  True(L,p)  is false
>>>>>>>>>>  True(L,~p) is false
>>>>>>>>>> ~True(L,~p) is true
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> x := y means x is defined to be another name for y
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Right, so since p is DEFINED to be ~True(L, p), which since True(L, p) 
>>>>>>>>> is false, must be true, that means that you are claiming that
>>>>>>>>> T(L, <a statement that has been shown to be true>) is false.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thus your True predicat is just broken.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You ignored the part where Mikko agreed that
>>>>>>>>>>  p defined as ~True(L, p)
>>>>>>>>>> is a syntax error:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So, what it the "Syntax Error"?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Are we not allowed to negate an expression
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Or are we not allowed to assign an expression to a name.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Note, "Syntax Error", by its definition doesn't look at Semantics,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2024 3:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-20 17:48:40 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> True(English, "a cat is an animal) is true
>>>>>>>>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP) expands to ~True(~True(~True(~True(...))))
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it doesn't. It is a syntax error to have the same symbol on
>>>>>>>>>>> both sides ":=" so the expansion is not justified.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But it isn't.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> By the usual rules a definition of a symbol in terms of itself is not
>>>>>>>> an acceptable definition.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One can either reject it as a syntax error or let it go ahead
>>>>>>> and infinitely expand and reject it as a semantic error.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is a syntax error by the usual rules. If you want to use a different
>>>>>> syntax then you should specify one, preferably using a different symbol
>>>>>> instead of ":=". It is OK to extend the syntax but one should avoid any
>>>>>> conflict with the usual conventions. Also, if you change the syntax
>>>>>> rules you should not call it a "definition".
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP) is required to refer to itself on both sides
>>>>> that is what actual self-reference means.
>>>>> 
>>>>> *THE ACTUAL Stanford ARTICLE ON SELF-REFERENCE SAYS*
>>>>> *THAT THEY MAKE SURE TO ENCODE IS INCORRECTLY*
>>>>> ϕ(x) there is a sentence ψ such that S ⊢ ψ ↔ ϕ⟨ψ⟩.
>>>>> *The sentence ψ is of course not self-referential in a strict sense*,
>>>>> but mathematically it behaves like one.
>>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/self-reference/#ConSemPar
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is the standard convention throughout the literature to encode
>>>>> self-reference incorrectly. When the standard convention is to do
>>>>> these things incorrectly then the standard convention must be
>>>>> superseded and replaced.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That is one of the reasons what correctly analyzing these this is
>>>>> so difficult.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you are correct that this is incorrect syntax
>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP)
>>>>> that is yet another reason to reject the Liar Paradox
>>>>> (and every other self-reference paradox) as ill-formed.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Or one can reject is as a self-contradictory epistemological antinomy
>>>>>>> having no truth value thus a type mismatch error for any formal
>>>>>>> system of bivalent logic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If that can be formulated as a syntax rule. Being an epistemological
>>>>>> antinomy is semantics as is being true or false but type mismach can
>>>>>> be handled as syntax error if the syntax rules have a type system.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The formalized Liar Paradox
>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP) <is> an epistemological antinomy because assuming
>>>>> that it is true makes it false and assuming that it is false makes it
>>>>> true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That you want to also call it a syntax error seems reasonable to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it is not rejected as a syntax error then it does recursively
>>>>> expand ~True(~True(~True(~True(~True(...))))) as Clocksin & Mellish
>>>>> point out.
>>>>> 
>>>>> BEGIN:(Clocksin & Mellish 2003:254)
>>>>>    equal(X, X).
>>>>>    ?- equal(foo(Y), Y).
>>>>> 
>>>>>    that is, they will allow you to match a term against an uninstantiated
>>>>>    subterm of itself. In this example, foo(Y) is matched against Y, which
>>>>>    appears within it. As a result, Y will stand for foo(Y), which is
>>>>>    foo(foo(Y)) (because of what Y stands for), which is foo(foo(foo(Y))),
>>>>>    and so on. So Y ends up standing for some kind of infinite structure.
>>>>> END:(Clocksin & Mellish 2003:254)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Most of the greatest experts in the field are not even sure
>>>>>>> that there is anything wrong with it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nothing is inherently wrong in an uninterpreted formal system.
>>>>>> Something may be unsuitable for some purpose but still useful
>>>>>> for another purpose.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You already said that this is a syntax error:
>>>>> LP := ~True(L, LP)
>>>>> please at least be consistent with yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't. Because of a syntax error "LP := ~True(L, LP)" is not an
>>>> expression in the formal system and not in contradiction that there
>>>> is nothing wrong in the formal system.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is where Tarski says that his proof is anchored in the Liar Paradox
>>> https://liarparadox.org/Tarski_247_248.pdf
>> 
>> Nothing to that page contradicts anything I have said above.
>> 
>>> When you look at my new thread (and completely understand what it says)
>>> You will see when we correctly formalize Tarski's clumsy formalization
>>> of the Liar Paradox
>> 
>> You don't formalize it correctly with a string that is not in the
>> language of the formnal system. A syntax error excludes all meaning
>> and in prticular the meaning that Tarksi's expressions have.
>> 
> 
> Back in 2019 I created a formal system for this purpose:
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331859461_Minimal_Type_Theory_YACC_BNF
> 
> Initially it took any MTT expression and output the directed graph
> of the evaluation sequence of this expression. The current system
> only outputs the XML of the expression yet the directed graph can
> still be derived manually.

Users of your MTT basically need two programs: one that checks whether
the input is syntactiaclly correct and identifies at least one error
if it is not, and one that checks whether a proof (that may but need
not have unproven premises) is valid and identifies at least one error
if it is not.

-- 
Mikko

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Thread

True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 21:36 -0500
  Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-10 23:16 -0400
    Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 22:35 -0500
      Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-10 23:49 -0400
        Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 23:27 -0500
          Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-11 11:36 -0400
          Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-12 10:42 +0300
            Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 09:22 -0500
              Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-12 18:33 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 12:19 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 13:52 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 13:06 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 14:22 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 13:36 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 16:33 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 16:54 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 18:40 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 17:56 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 19:02 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 18:22 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 20:06 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 19:55 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 19:07 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 20:35 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 22:41 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 07:18 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 10:04 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 20:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 19:48 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 21:52 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 21:03 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 22:31 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 21:49 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 23:16 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 22:36 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 07:31 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 08:53 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 21:59 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 23:44 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 23:11 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 07:16 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 08:48 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:26 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 19:36 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:52 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-16 05:38 +0200
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 22:58 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 20:20 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 21:39 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 20:57 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 22:07 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 21:17 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 22:33 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 21:42 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 23:17 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 22:33 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 07:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 08:37 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:38 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 23:44 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 07:32 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 08:59 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:44 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:54 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 22:20 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 23:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 22:51 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 07:41 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 09:32 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 20:22 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:33 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 21:19 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 22:40 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 22:35 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 08:43 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:15 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 10:32 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 11:48 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 12:56 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 12:26 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 13:38 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 14:35 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 15:54 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 14:46 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 15:57 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 15:00 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 18:22 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 17:47 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 19:04 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 22:47 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 07:55 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 08:41 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 17:03 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 09:15 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-20 10:55 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 12:48 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 11:05 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 09:36 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-22 19:58 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:52 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 19:01 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 18:55 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 21:03 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 20:36 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 22:31 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:45 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 07:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:46 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 21:44 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:32 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 11:18 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:16 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-25 11:01 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 13:13 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-26 11:38 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 08:52 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-27 11:00 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:15 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-27 17:19 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:34 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-28 09:59 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 09:59 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 21:39 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 23:38 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 22:54 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 07:31 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 09:00 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-05-29 09:01 +0200
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:11 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-29 11:25 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:31 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-30 09:52 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 08:43 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-31 10:17 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 10:47 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-01 10:32 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 10:41 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:29 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:01 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 10:19 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:56 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 17:14 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 11:09 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 20:07 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:27 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:15 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 11:05 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:23 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:25 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 10:54 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-22 10:57 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 10:55 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 13:17 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 15:12 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 19:30 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 13:59 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 20:57 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 20:54 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 22:24 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 21:56 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 23:37 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 00:52 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 07:50 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 10:00 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-21 18:08 +0200
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 21:46 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-20 13:29 +0200
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 00:28 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 07:41 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-13 12:23 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 09:48 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 20:29 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 12:08 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 09:42 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-15 11:39 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 09:27 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:25 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-16 11:44 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 10:05 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 18:49 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:23 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:21 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:24 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 09:34 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 12:16 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 10:18 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-15 11:43 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 09:31 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:26 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-16 11:59 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 11:00 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 18:56 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:28 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 10:46 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 11:59 -0500
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 13:09 +0300
                Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 10:26 -0500

csiph-web