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| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.logic, comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method |
| Date | 2024-05-17 21:33 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <v290i2$1a3tk$21@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (28 earlier) <v26k8e$20nen$1@dont-email.me> <v27fpj$18ad7$16@i2pn2.org> <v27pp4$27tqp$1@dont-email.me> <v28v14$1a3tk$19@i2pn2.org> <v28vsb$2f45l$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 5/17/24 9:22 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/17/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/17/24 10:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2024 6:41 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/16/24 11:51 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/16/2024 10:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/16/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/16/2024 9:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/16/24 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/16/2024 9:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/16/24 9:59 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/16/2024 6:32 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/16/24 12:44 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 9:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/24 10:17 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 9:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) is BY DEFINITION
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a truth bearer, as True must return a Truth Value
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for all inputs, and ~ a truth valus is always the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other truth value.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to expressions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are stipulated to be true derive p?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 8:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Which has NOTHING to do with the problem with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L, p)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > being true when p is defined in L as ~True(L, p)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT True(L, p) IS FALSE*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I said that because there is not path to p, it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be false, but that was based on the assumption
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it could exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, so True(L, p) is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and thus ~True(L, p) is true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to expressions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are stipulated to be true derive ~p?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Which has NOTHING to do with the above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > as we never refered to False(L,p).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT false(L, p) IS FALSE*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but that has nothing to do with the problem with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L, p) being false, because, since p in L is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~True(L, p) so that make True(L, ~false) which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L, true) false, which is incorrrect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, so False(L, p) is false,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please try and keep these two thoughts together at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I need to make another point that depends on both of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT True(L, p) IS FALSE*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT false(L, p) IS FALSE*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, by your definitions, True(L, p) is False, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means that True(L, true) is false, so your system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is broken.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You understand that True(English, "a fish") is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you understand that False(English, "a fish") is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you understand this means that "a fish" is neither True
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor false in English.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You understand that the actual Liar Paradox is neither true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor false *THIS IS MUCH MUCH BETTER THAN MOST PEOPLE:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good Job*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> False(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is saying the same thing that you already know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You get stuck when we formalize: "This sentence is not true"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as "p defined as ~True(L, p)", yet the formalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sentence has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the exact same semantics as the English one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, YOU get stuck when you can't figure out how to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L, p) with p defined in L as ~True(L, p) work. If it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IS false, then the resulting comclusion is that True(L,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true) is false, whicn means your system is broken.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> True(L, true) is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>> False(L, true) is false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the Truth Teller Paradox
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is rejected as not a truth bearer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No True(L, true) must be TRUE by definiition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We could say that "kittens are fifteen story office buildings"
>>>>>>>>>>> is true by definition and we would be wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But the fundamental definition of true makes it true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *True by definition must actually be true*
>>>>>>>>> *True by definition must actually be true*
>>>>>>>>> *True by definition must actually be true*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So why did you argue that True(L, true) shouldn't be just true?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aren't you just being inconsistant now
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A set of finite string semantic meanings that form an accurate model
>>>>>>> of the general knowledge of the actual world are stipulated as true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, do you still think that true, as a value, might not be true?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Expressions that are {true on the basis of meaning} are ONLY
>>>>> (a) A set of finite string semantic meanings that form an accurate
>>>>> model
>>>>> of the general knowledge of the actual world.
>>>>> (b) Expressions derived by applying truth preserving operations to (a)
>>>>>
>>>>> Years after reading Kripke's article I finally figured out that
>>>>> the above must be what he mean by grounding. He himself did not
>>>>> know this at the time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words, you believe that it is a valid interpretation to
>>>> change the meaning of words from what the original speaker took the
>>>> words to mean, and still are able to say that he actually MEANT the
>>>> sentence with the new meaning of the words.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still arguing that True(L, true) doesn't need to be true?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It forms an infinite cycle (in my above algorithm) known as the
>>>>> Truth Teller Paradox.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, which shows that True(L, p) can not exist, or it allows the
>>>> PROVING of both truth values for the Truth Teller Paradox, instead
>>>> of being able to leave it as a non-truth-bearer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fundamentally, your problem is you don't actually know the meaning
>>>> of the words you are using, but have assumed (incorrect) meaning
>>>> from your ZEROTH order study of the field.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> or for any sentance x that has been shown to be true, that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True(L, x) doesn't need to be true?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "True(L, true)" lacks a truth object that it is true about.
>>>>>>>>>>> A sentence cannot correctly be true about being true...
>>>>>>>>>>> It has to be true about something other than itself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> true IS the fundamental truth object.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *No it is not, it is the result of this algorithm*
>>>>>>>>> *No it is not, it is the result of this algorithm*
>>>>>>>>> *No it is not, it is the result of this algorithm*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it is the VALUE of the result of this algorithm, which, BY
>>>>>>>> DEFINITION, is a truth value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *The grounding of a truth-bearer to its truthmaker*
>>>>>>>>> True(L,x) returns true when x is derived from a set of truth
>>>>>>>>> preserving operations from finite string expressions of
>>>>>>>>> language that have been stipulated to have the semantic value
>>>>>>>>> of Boolean true. False(L,x) is defined as True(L,~x).
>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 PL Olcott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which, by your claim makes True(L, p) false, but that makes p to
>>>>>>>> be defined as ~false, which is true, so you are claiming True(L,
>>>>>>>> true) can be false.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You already agreed that p is neither true nor false.
>>>>>>> This means that p is rejected as not a truth-bearer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, by doing so, you make it a truth bearer by the sentecne that
>>>>>> defined it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no way to make a non-truth-bearer into a truth-bearer.
>>>>
>>>> So, so admit that True(L, p) isn't always at truth-bearer, and thus
>>>> isn't the required predicate, and thus your claim it is just turns
>>>> out to be a LIE.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You try and tell me how you can make "a fish" into an
>>> expression that is true or false.
>>
>> Where did I say I could.
>>
>> The problem is that p defined in L as ~True(L, p) is more powerful
>> than your "a fish" statement.
>>
>
> It is not at all more powerful. p and ~p continue to lack a sequence
> of truth reserving operations from expressions of language stipulated
> to be true. This makes p the exact same non-truth-bearer as "a fish".
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If necessary we can go over this single point again
>>>>>>> and again and again and not talk about anything else
>>>>>>> until you get it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p is DEFINED to be (in L) the sentence ~True(L, p)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You already agreed that is neither true nor false.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we have to keep going over this sub-point over and over
>>>>> and not talk about anything else until you get it we will.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Your other points below lost track of this simple point*
>>>>>
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>> *p is neither True nor False*
>>>>
>>>> Then True(L, p), which form the definition of p, is also not a Truth
>>>> Bearer, and thus can not be the truth predicate.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Once you get this we can move on to the next sub-point*
>>>>> *When I repeat these things it really seems to help your
>>>>> concentration*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oncd you get that a non-truth-bearer resulting operation can't be a
>>>> predicate, you will understand your error.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/13/2024 7:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> > Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) ...
>>>
>>> You already admitted that True(L,p) and False(L,p) both return false.
>>> This is the correct value that these predicates correctly derived.
>>
>> Right, but that also means that we can show that True(L, true) returns
>> false, which says your logic system is broken by being inconsistant.
>>
>
> Not at all. Your version of the Truth Teller paradox has
> the conventional lack of a truth object as the Liar Paradox
> and the Truth Teller paradox: What are they true about?
In other words, you logic doesn't have an absolute idea of truth!!!
The object that made the statement true, was that True(L, p) said that p
wasn't true.
>
> This sentence is true.
> What is it true about?
> It is true about being true.
> What is it is true about being true about?
>
> This turns out to be Kripke ungrounded yet Kripke did
> not know the algorithmic basis for Kripke grounding.
>
> *Outline of a Theory of Truth Saul Kripke* (1975)
> https://www.impan.pl/~kz/truthseminar/Kripke_Outline.pdf
>
>
>>>
>>> It seems that now you are now disagreeing with your own self. You are
>>> saying the predicates are broken BECAUSE THEY RETURN THE CORRECT VALUE.
>>>
>>
>> No, your logic system disagrees with itself, I am just pointing that out.
>>
>
> All that you pointed out is that you still don't understand
> the Truth Teller paradox.
No, YOU don't understand that True MUST be a truth beared, or you are
just a liar that your system has a Truth Predicate.
Remember, we started with
p in L is ~True(L, p)
you say True(L, p) is false
thus the truth value of p MUST be true, since it is not the falseness of
True(L, p)
Thus we can say that p is also the equivalent in L of
~True(L, ~True(L, p))
Which since we showed that True(L, p) was false, that means that the
outer True predicate sees a true statement (since it is the negation of
a false statement) and thus True(L, ~True(L, p)) is true, and thus we
can show that p must be false.
Thus we have a contradiction.
So, if you want to claim "Truth Teller Paradox", the only answer is to
say that True(L, p) isn't actually a truth-bearer, and thus it isn't a
predicate, and you have lied that your system has one.
>
>> This is the problem with the assumption that a Truth Predicate exists,
>> and is what Tarksi was pointing out, but which seems to be above your
>> level of understanding.
Back to sci.logic | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 21:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-10 23:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 22:35 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-10 23:49 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-10 23:27 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-11 11:36 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-12 10:42 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 09:22 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-12 18:33 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 12:19 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 13:52 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 13:06 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 14:22 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 13:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 16:33 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 16:54 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 18:40 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 17:56 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 19:02 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 18:22 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 18:53 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 20:06 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 19:55 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 19:07 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-12 20:35 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 22:41 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 07:18 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 10:04 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 20:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 19:48 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 21:52 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 21:03 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 22:31 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 21:49 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 23:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 22:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 07:31 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 08:53 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 21:59 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 23:44 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 23:11 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 07:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 08:48 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:26 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 19:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:52 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-16 05:38 +0200
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 22:58 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 20:20 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 21:39 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 20:57 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 22:07 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 21:17 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 22:33 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 21:42 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 23:17 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 22:33 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 07:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 08:37 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:38 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 23:44 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 07:32 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 08:59 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:44 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:54 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 22:20 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 23:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 22:51 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 07:41 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 09:32 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 20:22 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:33 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 21:19 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 22:40 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 22:35 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 08:43 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:15 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 10:32 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 11:48 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 12:56 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 12:26 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 13:38 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 14:35 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 15:54 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 14:46 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 15:57 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 15:00 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 18:22 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 17:47 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 19:04 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 22:47 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 07:55 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 08:41 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 17:03 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 09:15 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-20 10:55 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 12:48 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 11:05 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 09:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-22 19:58 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:52 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 19:01 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 18:55 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 21:03 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 20:36 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-22 22:31 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:45 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 07:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:46 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 21:44 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:32 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 11:18 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:16 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-25 11:01 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 13:13 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-26 11:38 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 08:52 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-27 11:00 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:15 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-27 17:19 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:34 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-28 09:59 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 09:59 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 21:39 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 23:38 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 22:54 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 07:31 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 09:00 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-05-29 09:01 +0200
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:11 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-29 11:25 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:31 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-30 09:52 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 08:43 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-31 10:17 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 10:47 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-01 10:32 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 10:41 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:29 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:01 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 10:19 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:56 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 17:14 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 11:09 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 20:07 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:27 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:15 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 11:05 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 08:23 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:25 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-23 10:54 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-22 10:57 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 10:55 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 13:17 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 15:12 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 19:30 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 13:59 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 20:57 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 20:54 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 22:24 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 21:56 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 23:37 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 00:52 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 07:50 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 10:00 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-21 18:08 +0200
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 21:46 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-20 13:29 +0200
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 00:28 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 07:41 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-13 12:23 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 09:48 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-13 20:29 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 12:08 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 09:42 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-15 11:39 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 09:27 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:25 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-16 11:44 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 10:05 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 18:49 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:23 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:21 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:24 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-13 09:34 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 12:16 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 10:18 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-14 22:16 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-15 11:43 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-15 09:31 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-15 20:26 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-16 11:59 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 11:00 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 18:56 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:28 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:07 -0400
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 10:46 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 11:59 -0500
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-14 13:09 +0300
Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Tarski olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-14 10:26 -0500
csiph-web