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Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 ---

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic
Subject Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 ---
Date 2024-05-04 19:49 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <v16l3c$1ftgf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (28 earlier) <v16gir$2oq8$2@i2pn2.org> <v16hln$1f7fm$1@dont-email.me> <v16ikg$2oq7$3@i2pn2.org> <v16jd1$1fk82$1@dont-email.me> <v16kou$2oq8$3@i2pn2.org>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 5/4/2024 7:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/4/24 8:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/4/2024 7:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 5/4/24 7:51 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 5/4/24 7:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 5:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/4/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 4:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/24 5:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 3:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/24 2:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 12:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/24 12:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 10:52 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/24 10:48 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 9:39 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/2024 5:56 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [ Followup-To: set ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [ .... ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are doing better than Alan on this though he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a single clue about what execution traces are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should read "How to make friends and influence 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" by Dale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carnegie.  You may not care about the former, but you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure are trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the latter.  Hint: telling nasty lies about people is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not effective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The alternative of disparaging my work without even 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is far worse because it meets the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/reckless-disregard-of-the-truth.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> required for libel and defamation cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No.  There have got to be limits on what one spends 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones time on. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None-the-less saying that I <am> wrong without looking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said <is> defamatory. Saying that you believe that I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the basis that I do not seem to have credibility is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not defamatory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been maintaining false things over the years to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such a degree that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be a waste of time suddenly to expect 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brilliant insights from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.  For example, you insist that robustly proven 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematical theorems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are false, and your "reasoning" hardly merits the word.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can D correctly simulated by H terminate normally?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 09 void main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11   H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Execution Trace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeps repeating (unless aborted)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 03: simulated D(D) invokes simulated H(D,D) that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulation invariant:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach past 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet saying that the above is false <is> defamatory 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with ordinary skill in the art of C programming can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is true by verifying that the execution trace is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say it is false by either not verifying that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the execution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trace is correct or not knowing what execution traces 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are <is>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> defamatory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it HAS been proven incorrect and YOU are the one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disregarding the evidence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I could file defamatory claims against you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It may be the case that you did bury another rebuttal in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your rhetoric and ad hominem attacks that were vigorously 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get away with the strawman deception change the subject 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rebuttal".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But very close to my first part of the reply I indicated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there WAS a detailed description of this at the end, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you replied to that mention, saying that since your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement was categorically true it would be easy to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> refute, and then you just didn't do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you post the time/date stamp I will carefully examine it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Until you do that it seems safe to assume that it was only
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same ruse as this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/1/2024 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 5/1/24 11:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> *I HAVE SAID THIS AT LEAST 10,000 TIMES NOW*
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> Every D simulated by H that cannot possibly stop running 
>>>>>>>>>>>> unless
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> aborted by H does specify non-terminating behavior to H. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> H aborts this simulation that does not count as D halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > Which is just meaningless gobbledygook by your definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > It means that
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > int H(ptr m, ptr d) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >     return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > }
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > is always correct, because THAT H can not possible simulate
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > the input to the end before it aborts it, and that H is all
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > that that H can be, or it isn't THAT H.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Every D NEVER simulated by H* (as shown above)
>>>>>>>>>>>> is definitely not *Every D simulated by H* (also shown above)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So. I guess you ADHD made you forget what you were talking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about and made yourself just into a liar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU choosing to ignore it, just shows that you are not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really interested in an actual honest dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess it doesn't matter to you what is actually true, as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are going to just assume what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A reasonable person cannot be reasonably expected to wade 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of that especially when one of these "rebuttals" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpreted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *D is simulated by H* to mean *D is NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But that isn't what distracted you in that message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/1/2024 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> *Every D simulated by H* that cannot possibly stop 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running unless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> aborted by H does specify non-terminating behavior to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> H aborts this simulation that does not count as D 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > Which is just meaningless gobbledygook by your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > It means that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > int H(ptr m, ptr d) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >     return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > is always correct, because THAT H can not possible 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > the input to the end before it aborts it, and that H is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > that that H can be, or it isn't THAT H.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One shows a reckless-disregard-of-the-truth when they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "interpret"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    to mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *D is NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But 0 steps is a number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *I did not say any number of steps*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 5/1/24 11:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> *I HAVE SAID THIS AT LEAST 10,000 TIMES NOW*
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> *Every D simulated by H* that cannot possibly stop 
>>>>>>>>>>>> running unless
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> aborted by H does specify non-terminating behavior to H. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> H aborts this simulation that does not count as D halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Every D simulated by H* IS NOT *Any D NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Every D simulated by H* IS NOT *Any D NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Every D simulated by H* IS NOT *Any D NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Every D simulated by H* IS NOT *Any D NEVER simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WITHOUT DEFINING EXACTLY WHAT "SIMULATED" means.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (1) You have already acknowledged that you what it means
>>>>>>>>>> by all the times that you did agree that D simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>> never reaches its own line 06 and halts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, D simulated by THIS H (and a very restricted family of 
>>>>>>>>> related programs), as you have defined it, will not reach its 
>>>>>>>>> own line 06.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have said this many hundreds of times because this shell-game 
>>>>>>>> deception has been ridiculous 
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This happens as either said H abort their simulation before the 
>>>>>>>>> program gets there, or they create an H that just never returns 
>>>>>>>>> an answer to H(D,D) and thus fail to be a decider. These are 
>>>>>>>>> two distinct parts of your "family" of H that you like to talk 
>>>>>>>>> about, that you need to be a bit imprecise about so you can try 
>>>>>>>>> to mix them up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When N steps of D are simulated by the directly executed H
>>>>>>>> where N is 1 to 1,000,000 no simulated D every reaches past
>>>>>>>> its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When N steps of D are simulated by the directly executed H
>>>>>>>> where N is 1 to 1,000,000 and H aborts its simulation all of
>>>>>>>> the nested simulations (if any) immediately totally stop running.
>>>>>>>> No simulated H ever returns any value to any simulated D.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (2) What could simulated possibly mean besides the C source-code
>>>>>>>>>> of D being interpreted by a C interpreter or the machine-language
>>>>>>>>>> of D being emulated by an x86 emulator?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, so why doesn't H do that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are not talking about my implemented H we are talking about
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After all, H doesn't actually simulate the call H instruction, 
>>>>>>>>> which should do what the instruction does, and enter H, or at 
>>>>>>>>> least do the equivalent results of calling H(D,D) which is to 
>>>>>>>>> return 0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Typically, to simulate something means to determine what it 
>>>>>>>>> will do when it is actually done, but you like to claim that 
>>>>>>>>> H's simulation of the input doesn't need to match the actual 
>>>>>>>>> behavior of the program described to it, so clearly you are not 
>>>>>>>>> using simulate in the conventional meanings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have EXPLICITLY claimed that just becuase D(D) Halts, 
>>>>>>>>> doesn't mean that H simulating the description of this machine 
>>>>>>>>> can't be correct when it says it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, it is clear that you somehow have rejected some of the 
>>>>>>>>> essential characteristic of what a "simulation" means, but 
>>>>>>>>> refuse to actually define it. The likely cause is that you know 
>>>>>>>>> you CAN'T precisely define it, as you can't make weasle words 
>>>>>>>>> to allow the illogical conclusion that you make for the call to 
>>>>>>>>> H being simulated, without makeing to too obvious that 
>>>>>>>>> something is very broken with your system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All of the above is based on the false assumption that we are 
>>>>>>>> talking about something other than this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are not talking about my implemented H we are talking about
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>> *Every H/D pair (of the infinite set) where D is simulated by H*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But what do you mean be "Simulated".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What in the definition of simulated allows a call to H that will 
>>>>>>> return 0 be simulated as "never returns"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You already understand that infinite recursion never returns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, trivially, since it isn't infinite if it does return.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, a recursion call loop that has NOTHING in the loop that can 
>>>>> break it, becomes infinite.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You already understand that recursive simulation is isomorphic to 
>>>>>> infinite recursion so I can't see how you can say that you don't 
>>>>>> understand these things an be sincere.
>>>>>
>>>>> But only for UNCONDITIONAL simulation, which H doesn't do.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Recursion(u32 N)
>>>> {
>>>>    Infinite_Recursion(N);
>>>>    return;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> OK we are down to one single point at a time, when that point is
>>>> divided into ten more points only one of them at a time we keep
>>>> dividing them until your rebuttal looks like ridiculous nonsense
>>>> to everyone including yourself.
>>>>
>>>> The ONLY point right now is that H(Infinite_Recursion, (ptr)5));
>>>> is correct when it reports that Infinite_Recursion() never halts
>>>> on the basis that Infinite_Recursion simulated by H never reaches
>>>> its return statement.
>>>
>>> Yes, since Infinite_Recursion has a full unconditional loop back to 
>>> the original point, it will be a non-halting program and thus no 
>>> correct simulation of it can reach an end, because the program it is 
>>> simulating will never reach an end.
>>>
>>
>> But H does not simulate it forever its simulation
>> of Infinite_Recursion() is conditional. How it is
>> that Infinite_Recursion() never halts when H stops
>> simulating it?
> 
> Becuase, as you don't seem to understand, the behavior of programs is 
> what they do as ideal mathematical objects on the ideal mathematical 
> machine they are concidered to be run on, NOT what some simulation of 
> them shows.
> 

Ah so you disagree with UTM's why do disagree with UTM's ?
We must stay on this single point until it is fully addressed.
If it is divided into subpoints the same thing goes for each subpoint.

> As I have mentioned MAMY times, you seem to have a fundamental confusion 
> between the RUNNING of the program, and the SIMULATION of it.
> 
> This seems to go back to your lack of understand what Truth actually is.
> 
> 
> RUNNING is what happens when it is carried out completely correctly, as 
> with a real correct processor which is left to run, or on the 
> mathematical model, that runs until it finishes (even if never)
> 
> SIMULATING, in the proper case, means simulating the steps of the 
> program until you can correctly determine the answer for what you are 
> tying to do the simulation. IF it is about the behavior of actually 
> running the program, as is the job of a Halt Decider, then it doesn't 
> matter if the simulation is stopped at some point, but if the simulation 
> was able to actually PROVE the behavior of the actual program.
> 
> With Infinite_Recursion, there ARE proof steps that can be do to atually 
> formally prove that this program can NEVER reach a final state, and 
> thus, a properly designed H can correctly abort it simulation and say 
> the program represented by the input does not halt.
> 
> Note, This logic has NOTHING to do with "The input simulated by the 
> Decideer" type questions, but is ALWAYS asking about the behavior of the 
> original machine as run.
> 
> If you want to try to define some meaning into your gobbledygook of "D 
> simulated by H", then YOU need to figure out what you can't figure out 
> how to handle even these trivial cases, you have a LOT of work in front 
> of you,
> 
> So, if YOU are questioning why H can be correct saying its simulation of 
> Infinite-Recursion would be non-halting, why do you think it is correct 
> about D?
> 
>>
>> All other points are ignored until this point is
>> fully addressed.
> 
> Yep, YOU need to decide how you want to define this,
> 
> If your criteria is NOT about the actual behavior of the actual program, 
> YOU need to figure out what you want, and how to define it, THEN you can 
> try to show why this new condition has any actual practical purpose.
> 
> Just makinging something very loosely related to halting decidable, 
> isn't likely going to win many people over.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> To go forward a step (ignore if you please, but I see where you are 
>>> trying to go.
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Simulation(ptr p)
>>> {
>>>      UTM(p, p);
>>>      return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> will also be an "infinte behavior" program when looked at as
>>>
>>> H(Infinite_Simulation, Infinite_Simulation)
>>>
>>> as the FULL loop (including through the UTM) is unconditional.
>>>
>>>
>>> BUT
>>>
>>> void X(ptr p)
>>> {
>>>      H(p,p)
>>>      return
>>> }
>>>
>>> is NOT the same if H(X,X) will ever decide to abort and return a 
>>> decision, thinking it is like the Infinite_Simulation case, as the 
>>> FULL Loop, which includes the code of H, is not unconditional.
>>>
>>> And this is true as if we just run X(X), then it will call H(X,X) 
>>> which, since you say H(X,X) will eventually decide to abort its 
>>> simulation and return, so X(X) WILL reach its final state, and that 
>>> says that one of my proposals could detect that and reach past the call.
>>>
>>> Note, this is NOT the "imposible program", as it doesn't have the 
>>> contray stuff at the end, but your H can't know that, so its logic 
>>> must be wrong.
>>>
>>
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Thread

Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-17 21:34 -0500
  Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-17 23:13 -0400
    Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 09:50 -0500
      Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-18 18:31 -0400
        Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 20:11 -0500
          Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-18 21:58 -0400
            Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 21:25 -0500
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-18 22:50 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 22:28 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-19 07:09 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 09:18 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-19 18:41 -0400
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 11:37 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-20 12:52 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 09:34 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 13:05 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 13:11 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-04-22 11:26 +0300
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-22 09:03 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-22 18:54 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-23 09:44 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-23 21:47 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-23 09:54 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 10:28 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 13:40 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 15:01 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 13:07 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 12:15 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 11:19 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 13:58 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 12:16 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 09:38 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 08:36 -0500
            Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 09:52 -0500
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-19 18:51 -0400
            Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 13:04 -0500
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-19 19:20 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 01:05 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-20 08:56 -0400
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 10:20 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-20 11:39 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 10:26 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 12:52 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 09:44 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-22 09:10 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 10:33 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-24 19:01 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 19:17 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-24 20:49 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 19:57 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-24 22:00 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 21:16 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-24 23:38 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 22:53 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 07:32 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 22:56 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 07:32 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 21:02 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 09:15 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 21:50 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 14:09 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 12:19 -0400
                D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 12:05 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 19:02 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 20:26 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 20:43 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 22:18 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 22:02 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-26 23:45 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 23:07 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 00:29 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 00:34 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 07:45 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 09:32 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 13:09 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 12:51 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 14:10 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 13:17 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 14:40 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 13:52 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 15:09 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 14:48 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 17:24 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 16:36 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 17:45 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 17:02 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 18:19 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 17:29 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 18:45 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 17:56 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 19:09 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 18:29 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 19:44 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 19:21 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 20:45 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 08:13 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-28 09:29 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 09:26 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-04-29 18:16 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 10:40 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-29 19:19 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-04-30 11:52 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-30 10:36 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-30 18:46 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-01 12:43 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-01 10:45 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-02 12:55 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-02 09:22 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-03 11:54 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 06:38 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-03 17:57 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 22:20 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-04 10:56 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 08:46 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 12:11 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 09:06 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-04 14:39 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 09:48 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-04 15:34 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 10:47 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 10:49 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 12:57 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-04 17:14 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 12:35 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 13:52 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 11:52 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 11:31 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 13:15 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 13:46 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 16:40 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 16:18 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 17:43 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 17:08 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 18:36 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 18:01 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 19:32 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 18:51 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 20:07 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 19:20 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 20:44 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 19:49 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 21:05 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 20:30 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 22:49 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 22:17 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-05 12:36 +0200
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 09:23 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 13:00 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 09:30 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-05 15:42 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 11:22 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 12:43 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-05 17:03 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 13:27 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 11:29 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 12:46 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 12:28 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 13:49 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 13:32 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-05 16:57 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 12:23 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-07 03:37 +0200
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2024-05-05 13:11 -0600
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 12:41 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 12:21 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 13:54 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 13:33 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 15:47 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 15:34 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 17:13 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 16:09 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 18:57 -0400
                your system clock is still off olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 19:38 -0500
                Re: your system clock is still off Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 21:05 -0400
                Re: your system clock is still off olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 22:27 -0500
                Re: your system clock is still off Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 23:53 -0400
                Re: your system clock is still off olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 23:06 -0500
                Re: your system clock is still off Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-06 06:33 -0400
                Re: your system clock is still off Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-06 18:50 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 07:10 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 10:13 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 12:50 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-06 19:01 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 11:51 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-05-05 09:33 +0100
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-05 10:02 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 09:51 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-05 12:54 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-05 17:28 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 12:47 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 08:36 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-04 12:11 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 09:12 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 11:58 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-05 12:39 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 09:41 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-06 19:15 +0300
                Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-29 19:19 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-26 10:34 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 08:10 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-28 09:22 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 07:31 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 09:48 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-28 11:10 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 10:27 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-28 12:13 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 12:10 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-28 13:41 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 11:12 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 13:26 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 11:46 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 08:41 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-28 12:01 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 09:28 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-29 10:24 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-29 19:19 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-29 19:19 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 09:08 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 21:55 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-27 08:50 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-27 13:21 -0400
  Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 00:57 -0500
    Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-18 07:34 -0400
    Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 09:51 -0700
      Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 13:23 -0500
        Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 14:04 -0700
          Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-19 16:36 -0500
            Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 13:07 -0700
              Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 16:05 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 20:41 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 21:40 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-20 20:39 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 00:47 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 07:19 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 07:17 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 10:16 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 08:53 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 12:41 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 11:37 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 11:42 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 14:34 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 17:19 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 16:38 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 19:52 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 19:22 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 21:54 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 23:35 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-22 07:35 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-23 10:39 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-23 21:47 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 19:00 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-21 19:53 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-21 22:02 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-24 23:33 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 07:32 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 09:09 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 12:04 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 10:45 -0700
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-25 13:47 -0500
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 21:51 -0400
                Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correct reasoning-- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-25 21:51 -0400
  Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-04-18 09:53 -0500
    Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-04-18 18:33 -0400

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