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Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles

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On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 12:42:13PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 12:17:33PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 10:09:38AM +0100, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
> > > The Start is based on the GnuK and I think should be upgradable to do 4K
> > > keys. The Pro uses a non-free smartcard internally for the RSA
> > > operations. I believe the Start should also be capable of ECC, as per
> > > the GnuK. It's possible Nitrokey haven't updated their firmware to
> > > support this yet.
> > 
> > I might be missing something, but I am wondering what a free hardware
> > design will help here. I am not in a position to validate it anyway, and
> > an USB token is unlikely to take any private data and phone it home.
> > What do I gain from using the GnuK over a yubi- or nitrokey other than
> > being able to say "yay, it's free"?
> 
> Assume you're passing a border, or otherwise have the token temporarily in
> hands of someone nasty.
> * with a non-backdoored token: there's no way to copy the key off the token,
>   the attacker may try their luck decapping, or try https://xkcd.com/538/
>   while keeping you in custody the whole time

In this usecase, the idea is the same for a free and a non-free token,
with the added fun of perps being too stupid to believe that the device
is indeed secure and continuing the torture of the human to make her
reveal the secret key.

> * with Yubikey 4 (suspected): they send the secret handshake, get a copy of
>   the key, and you don't even know anything happened

That's a point, but I cannot validate whether the free hardware
design running the free software crypto app isn't backdoored anyway due
to lack of knowledge and expertise.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
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Marc Haber         | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany    |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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wanted: educate us please on key dongles Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2017-08-02 22:20 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Zlatan Todoric <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2017-08-02 22:40 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2017-08-02 22:50 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2017-08-03 11:30 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2017-08-03 11:30 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2017-08-03 13:40 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Víctor Cuadrado Juan <me@viccuad.me> - 2017-08-03 19:10 +0200
  Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2017-08-11 15:20 +0200
    Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-11 17:30 +0200
      Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-08-11 19:30 +0200
        Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-11 19:50 +0200
    Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-08-11 19:10 +0200
      Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2017-08-11 19:30 +0200
        Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-11 22:00 +0200
          Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2017-08-12 00:00 +0200
    Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-29 19:40 +0200
      Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-29 20:00 +0200
      Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2017-08-30 11:10 +0200
        Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 12:20 +0200
          Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2017-08-30 12:50 +0200
            Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 13:00 +0200
              Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-08-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 15:00 +0200
              Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 13:20 +0200
              Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2017-08-30 13:20 +0200
              Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Ian Campbell <ijc@debian.org> - 2017-08-30 17:20 +0200
        Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Alexander Zangerl <az+debmnt@snafu.priv.at> - 2017-08-31 00:40 +0200
    Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-29 20:10 +0200
      Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-29 21:10 +0200
        Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 09:10 +0200
          Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-30 14:00 +0200
            Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-30 14:50 +0200
              Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-30 17:20 +0200
            Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-09-22 22:10 +0200
          Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-08-30 14:10 +0200
          Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-08-31 07:10 +0200
  Re: wanted: ... key dongles GNUK is available Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org> - 2017-08-16 17:00 +0200
    Re: wanted: ... key dongles GNUK is available Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-29 19:50 +0200
  [summary] Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2017-09-08 15:20 +0200
    Re: [summary] Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Sotirios Vrachas <sotirios@vrachas.com> - 2017-09-09 22:20 +0200
      Re: [summary] Re: wanted: educate us please on key dongles Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2017-09-10 06:00 +0200

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