Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

From	Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)
Date	2017-08-19 16:00 +0200
Message-ID	<ugcs9-1Zv-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<uevSh-1ms-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <ug8ye-85i-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Saturday 19 August 2017 05:32:25 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

> Felix Miata:
> > What's needed is incentive for code creators to simultaneously
> > document, with ample examples that man pages usually omit, even if
> > it's only in formal, non-wikified docs that wikis can point to.

That would be fine if the README had those links in it, but how to 
enforce it?
>
> Gene Heskett:
> > It should be an iron-clad rule that a developer submitting his itch
> > scratcher code to a distribution must be subscribed to that
> > distributions user list BEFORE he can commit.
>
> That does not work and does not scale.

Scale?  How many active developers would that involve?  Surely the 
mailing list machines capacity can't be a problem.  I don't really care 
if the developer never replies, but he should be at least reading it to 
collect the users of his code flowers for a job well done and bricks 
thrown when its a screwed up mess only he knows how to make work..

> What would work is what M. 
> Miata said, which is to inculcate in software developers a culture of
> always providing doco with the software, and regarding the job as not
> complete unless there is doco.

I agree, but how to enforce it?
>
> That said, an obscure page (which people even in this thread were hard
> pressed to find) on someone else's wiki does not really count.

Nope. The link and paths to the doco must be complete enough a google 
search can find it, in the top page of the search results.

> Furthermore: In this *particular* regard, the developer-provided doco
> actually *is* clear.  The upstart manual page for inittab has been
> warning that the file is obsolete for over ten years, and that manual
> page is copied all over the WWW making it fairly easy to come across.
> (Examples: https://linux.die.net/man/5/inittab
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/34308/
> https://serverfault.com/questions/147430/
> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man5/inittab.5.html)

Its becoming obsolete is NOT mentioned in my wheezy approved and supplied 
man page for it, I just read it this instant.  So if you call it widely 
publicized it fails that definition AFAIAC.
>
> The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the
> upstart people did, although they have explicitly documented run
> levels as "obsolete" in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This,
> too, has been copied around the WWW, albeit somewhat less. (Examples:
> https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html
> http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/runlevel.8.html
> https://www.mankier.com/8/runlevel)
>
I have only one machine with a new enough install, jessie, to have a some 
of systemd, so I am still learning.  Fortunately when I screw up, it 
tries to educate me, but the wet ram is A: north of 80 yo, and B: not 
yet "in the habit" since the rest of my stuff is running wheezy.

> I for one have been attempting spreading the word about inittab, too.
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/inittab-is-history.html
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/introduction.html
>
> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/248313/5132
>
> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/196197/5132
>
> * https://askubuntu.com/a/834323/43344
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/runlevel.html
>
> In this particular case, one cannot really level the charge of
> developers not documenting this.  It is amply documented, by
> developers of multiple projects, in their manual pages in their
> handbooks/guides and on their WWW sites, for over a decade.  The
> deficiencies of Debian's own wiki cannot legitimately be laid at the
> feet of the developers of the various softwares.
>
> One such developer even tried to donate to you an update to the Debian
> Policy Manual that explained both /etc/inittab (in section 9.3.4) and
> the changes that arrived in 2014, to replace your woefully outdated
> one:

I'm assuming the "you" above is aimed at debian as I do not recall it 
otherwise.

> * http://jdebp.eu./Proposals/DebianPolicy/

Which again, is a link I've just now become aware of. I am for it of 
course but it has that unmistakable odor of the N.I.H. syndrome on the 
part of Debian. Is the bug machine the proper place to open some windows 
and let that odor dissipate?

Thanks Jonathan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Thread

no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200
  Re: no /etc/inittab Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-14 13:00 +0200
    Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:10 +0200
      Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 13:40 +0200
        Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:50 +0200
        Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 18:10 +0200
          Re: no /etc/inittab Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
      Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 14:00 +0200
        Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 15:00 +0200
        Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
          Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 15:50 +0200
            Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:00 +0200
              Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:10 +0200
                Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
                Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:40 +0200
                Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 18:30 +0200
            Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
              Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 17:30 +0200
                Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 18:20 +0200
                Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
          Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 12:10 +0200
            Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 22:10 +0200
              Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-19 23:00 +0200
    Re: no /etc/inittab deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
      No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 12:50 +0200
        Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 14:00 +0200
          Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:00 +0200
            Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 15:10 +0200
              Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:30 +0200
                Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 10:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 11:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 12:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
                Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 16:40 +0200
                Re: Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 17:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 22:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-15 22:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
                No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:40 +0200
              Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 17:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
              Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-15 16:40 +0200
                No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 14:10 +0200
          Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 17:30 +0200
            Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
              Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 11:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 15:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 15:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 17:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 16:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Ansgar Burchardt <ansgar@debian.org> - 2017-08-20 12:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-21 15:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 19:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-21 05:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 06:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 23:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-21 07:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:00 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 17:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 18:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 19:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 20:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 21:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
                No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:40 +0200
                No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:20 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
            Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
              Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:10 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 20:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:40 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:50 +0200
                Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 06:40 +0200
    Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 21:30 +0200
      Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 22:40 +0200
        Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
          Re: obsolete wiki Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 23:50 +0200
            Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
              Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:40 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
              Re: obsolete wiki Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 11:20 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 12:50 +0200
          obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 08:20 +0200
        Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 00:20 +0200
          Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 11:50 +0200
            Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-19 15:10 +0200
            Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:00 +0200
              Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 20:00 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:10 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
                Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 16:30 +0200
                obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:00 +0200
  Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200

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