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Groups > linux.debian.project > #9409

Are online services also software for Debian's rules?

From "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.project
Subject Are online services also software for Debian's rules?
Date 2017-08-12 09:40 +0200
Message-ID <udzbA-65P-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 08:55:01AM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
>  ❦ 12 août 2017 06:29 GMT, "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> :
> 
> > That is a disservice to our users.  While for many users this is true, those
> > users will have contrib (and probably non-free) enabled in their sources.list.
> > So moving the package to contrib doesn't change anything for them.  The only
> > people who see a difference are the ones who asked not to see this kind of
> > software, and they will no longer see it.  That is a great outcome, not
> > something to get upset about.
> 
> By default, contrib and non-free repositories are not enabled. They are
> also unsupported from the security team. They are not part of
> Debian. They are an additional service provided to users requesting it
> specifically.

Your argument seems to be:

Debian cares about free software.
Therefore, Debian does not enable contrib and non-free by default.
Therefore, users may not see non-free related software.  This is a problem.
Let's fix it by pushing that software into main anyway.

In other words: We care about free software, therefore we should put non-free
(related) software in main.  What?

If you believe it is a problem that our users don't have access to the software
in contrib by default, then propose to fix that.  The obvious way to do that
would be by enabling contrib by default, not by moving software that belongs in
contrib into main.

Another solution for those users is to install one of our many derivatives,
most of which don't care about non-free software like we do.

> Debian is about free software. There is nothing in DFSG about "free
> services". How do you know if a service is implemented with free
> software or not? Amazon S3 could be free software, but only distributed
> internally at Amazon.

They can be, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.  There is no question
that the client is free software.  If the server is not packaged in main, that
means this free client software belongs in contrib.  Whether that is because it
is non-free or for some other reason does not matter.  That is, unless you are
claiming that their service is not "software".  Are you?

Thanks,
Bas

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Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2017-08-05 02:10 +0200
  Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-08-05 15:50 +0200
    Re: Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial  service "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <bas@wijnen.dtdns.net> - 2017-08-06 09:30 +0200
    Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2017-08-06 17:30 +0200
  Bug#856139: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-06 14:20 +0200
    Bug#856139: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2017-08-06 14:40 +0200
    Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-07 20:20 +0200
      Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-07 21:00 +0200
        Debian packages advertising non-free services (was: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service) Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 01:40 +0200
          Re: Debian packages advertising non-free services Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 07:40 +0200
            Re: Debian packages advertising non-free services Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-08 07:50 +0200
              Re: Debian packages advertising non-free services Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 09:00 +0200
              Re: Debian packages advertising non-free services Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 10:10 +0200
            Re: Debian packages advertising non-free services Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 08:20 +0200
      Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-08-08 05:50 +0200
        Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2017-08-11 14:10 +0200
          Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-08-11 17:00 +0200
          Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service Faidon Liambotis <paravoid@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 00:00 +0200
            Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial  service Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2017-08-12 05:50 +0200
            Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 08:30 +0200
              Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 09:00 +0200
                Are online services also software for Debian's rules? "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 09:40 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 10:00 +0200
              Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-12 10:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 11:20 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 12:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 17:20 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-13 22:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-08-13 23:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 02:30 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 02:30 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 14:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2017-08-14 15:00 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? "Dr. Bas Wijnen" <wijnen@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 15:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-08-14 19:40 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 19:50 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-12 12:10 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-08-12 16:00 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-12 16:20 +0200
                Re: Are online services also software for Debian's rules? Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-08-12 16:50 +0200
                win32-loader (was: Re: Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises commercial service) Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 17:00 +0200
              Re: [pkg-go] Bug#856139: certspotter: long description advertises  commercial service Tobias Frost <tobi@debian.org> - 2017-08-12 17:40 +0200

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