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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #616889
| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 |
| Date | 2023-08-05 23:24 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <uan3pc$23c7c$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (14 earlier) <49b1e6f0-5e11-4538-9343-9e4386847f63n@googlegroups.com> <uam6cq$1rih4$1@dont-email.me> <4587826e-d19d-4ae6-a138-c66c6ef8c03en@googlegroups.com> <uamlgd$1trcc$1@dont-email.me> <56f15697-e305-4f5e-8e04-3048e1871dcfn@googlegroups.com> |
On 8/5/2023 7:54 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 4:20:49 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >> On 8/5/2023 3:58 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: >>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:02:53 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>> On 8/5/2023 12:42 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, 5 August 2023 at 05:28:25 UTC+2, Volney wrote: >>>> That they used two modes does not mean they had determined the effective one before launch. It could have been determined during the mission in accordance with empirical data from that mission. In any case the amount is not predicted by the theory of relativity because it is not time dilation. It is instrumental error. >>> >>>>> On 8/4/2023 4:03 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:41:29 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>>>>> On 8/4/2023 2:12 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 10:43:24 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 8/3/2023 3:37 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 20:22:02 UTC+2, Paparios wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> El jueves, 3 de agosto de 2023 a las 13:39:48 UTC-4, Maciej Wozniak escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 17:17:51 UTC+2, Paparios wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> El jueves, 3 de agosto de 2023 a las 9:46:09 UTC-4, Maciej Wozniak escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 15:05:35 UTC+2, Paparios wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> El jueves, 3 de agosto de 2023 a las 2:29:39 UTC-4, Maciej Wozniak escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 00:03:29 UTC+2, Paparios wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great definition. It means that if I sit in a coach, my speed is 0 and my distance is 0, so my time is undefined? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have another opinion? Is it defined? Tell us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about it, poor halfbrain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Time is what a clock reads. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not in your physics idiocies, sorry. Anyone can check GPS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what clocks read doesn't match them at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You totally ignore what the people, which runs the GPS system, use: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oppositely - you do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://timetoolsltd.com/gps/what-is-gps-time/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what GPS clocks read, poor halfbrain. Too bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For sure that is not an official page about GPS. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And for sure there is nothing about "what clocks read" >>>>>>>>>>>> in your quoting. All the clocks of GPS read the same time >>>>>>>>>>>> scale, some seconds different from TAI. No moronic dilation >>>>>>>>>>>> between them. But you're free to enchant the reality. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> GPS would work perfectly even if relativity were unknown because they would merely adjust the clocks for the empirically determined difference. That is really what they already do. >>>>>>>>>> Why would there be *any* empirical difference if Newtonian physics was >>>>>>>>>> correct? Transmit at 10.23 MHz, receive at 10.23 MHz. Zero difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How did they manage to get the exact frequency offset correct with the >>>>>>>>>> first attempt (actually second attempt, first was really 10.23 MHz w/ 0 >>>>>>>>>> offset) ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How did they manage to come up with exactly the correct frequency, >>>>>>>>>> 10.2299999954326 MHz, which just happens to be exactly what relativity >>>>>>>>>> predicts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Why doesn't Louis Essen, inventor of atomic clocks, think relativity predicted it? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> You didn't answer the question. How did the GPS engineers happen to come >>>>>>>> up with the exact right frequency right away? Why was that frequency >>>>>>>> exactly the same as what GR predicts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Essen was simply wrong if he really stated what you claim. Whether he >>>>>>>> understood GR itself and its effects isn't known. >>>>>> >>>>>>> They did not come up with it until they got the empirical data from the satellites. >>>>>> How the hell could they get the empirical data from satellites if it was >>>>>> the VERY FIRST cesium clock flown in space, EVER? This mission was the >>>>>> PROTOTYPE for the GPS satellites, and the whole reason for the existence >>>>>> of the switch between 10.2299999954326 MHz and 10.23 MHz was because >>>>> >>>>> Stupid Mike, do you really believe they made nothing but >>>>> 2 values possible? >>>> I am going by the engineering design of the NS-2 satellite mission and >>>> the mission report from that mission. Both the design spec and mission >>>> report mention only two settings, which I call "Newton Mode" and >>>> "Einstein Mode". >>>> >>>> That mission ran in "Newton mode" for 20 days where the transmitted >>>> carrier was 10.23 MHz, after it was switched to "Einstein mode" for the >>>> remainder of the mission, where the carrier was 10.2299999954326 MHz. >>>> The mission report stated it didn't work while in "Newton Mode" but did >>>> work correctly in "Einstein Mode". The report did not mention any other >>>> switch settings. >>>>> That's how you imagine "a switch", >>>>> isn't it? >>>> While most switches have two positions, it is not a requirement or >>>> definition of a switch. But the design spec stated there were just two >>>> possibilities for the switch, which I call "Newton Mode" and "Einstein >>>> Mode". The mission report only mentioned two positions as well. The >>>> "Newton Mode" setting didn't work while "Einstein Mode" did work correctly. >>>> >>>> If there were additional switch settings, what would the values for >>>> those settings be, and why? Why were the additional settings never used >>>> during the mission? >> >>> That they used two modes does not mean they had determined the effective one before launch. It could have been determined during the mission in accordance with empirical data from that mission. >> I already told you, this mission was the first mission to fly Cs atomic >> clocks in space. THERE WAS NO EMPIRICAL DATA THAT COULD BE USED! None! >> Trying to reintroduce nonexistent empirical data from nonexistent >> previous missions after you were told it doesn't exist sounds like pure >> desperation on your part. >> >> There were two modes because they had NOT determined the correct one >> before launch, but they eliminated all but two possibilities. This >> launch was sufficiently cutting edge that there was uncertainty whether >> Newtonian/Galilean physics would work (transmit at 10.23 MHz to be >> received at 10.23 MHz) or Einsteinian physics (transmit at >> 10.2299999954326 MHz to be received at 10.23 MHz) was correct. >> >> This mission was successful to the point where it was clear that >> Einsteinian physics was correct. Every single GPS satellite launched >> since then transmits at 10.2299999954326 MHz, and the switch to 10.23 >> MHz was never included again. Einstein's relativity vindicated yet again. >>> In any case the amount is not predicted by the theory of relativity because it is not time dilation. >> Sorry, but the 10.2299999954326 MHz figure was exactly predicted by >> Einstein's relativity, whether you like it or not. That number was NOT >> picked at random. >> >>> It is instrumental error. >> >> Relativity is not instrumental error. Relativity is physics. Again, I >> sense your desperation. > Volney, I already said, empirical data on that very mission. Please listen. How can you use empirical data from this mission to set the GR carrier frequency to 10.2299999954326 MHz before launch? Is there a time traveler involved who derives the empirical data from this mission, goes back in time to before the launch and tells the engineers to use 10.2299999954326 MHz? Since there is NO other empirical data which can be used (except from other future space flights that can be sent back in time?) > The Schwartzchild metric includes c for the speed of gravity when this idea is disproven, or gravity would not escape black holes. Not an argument. A charged black hole will still exhibit its charge to the universe despite the speed of light. > I am not in the slightest bit persuaded by relativity, Of course not. It is one of the symptoms of crackpottery. > so I am not desperate. Well now you are apparently involving time travel to get the empirical data as an alternate to engineers and physicists simply plugging the orbital altitude and speed and earth's mass into a GR equation to come up with the 10.2299999954326 MHz, rather than accepting physicists doing their thing, it sounds like desperation to me. > Relativity is not physics. it is pseudoscience. Since relativity is a theory which is falsifiable and can be used to make predictions, it is physics. > Relativity is not necessary for determining the instrumental error of clocks in space. Except there is no instrumental error. If there was, and it could not be controlled, the GPS system would be useless. The GR effect is much larger than actual errors in the system, something like 10 km/day, each and every day, cumulative. > I hope you have the intelligence to understand that Essen is not a creationist because he published in a Creationist journal or that he feels vindicated by it unlike your comrade. It sounds like HE was desperate as well, to lower himself to publish in a creationist "journal" like that.
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Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 00:49 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 13:56 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-02 15:03 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:08 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:17 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 16:16 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 19:12 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:29 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 06:05 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 06:46 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 08:17 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:39 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 11:21 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:28 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 12:45 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:15 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:20 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:44 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 13:46 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:20 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 17:57 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:21 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:51 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:27 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 21:18 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 23:17 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 23:48 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:05 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-04 11:47 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:06 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:59 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 15:53 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:56 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:07 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 22:54 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-04 22:46 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:28 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Vidal Barabashev <dlva@vvhivdbs.ab> - 2023-08-05 17:50 +0000
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:53 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-04 11:54 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:01 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 22:59 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:43 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:12 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 15:41 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:52 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:03 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 23:28 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 21:42 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 15:02 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 12:58 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 19:20 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 16:54 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 18:14 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 23:24 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:42 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-06 21:22 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 22:35 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Dillan Novoselitsky <doik@olokkeol.la> - 2023-08-07 09:04 +0000
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 11:14 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 16:55 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:05 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 17:51 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:23 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 19:17 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 19:52 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-06 22:02 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-06 11:45 +0200
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 10:35 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:41 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-06 11:45 +0200
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:51 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Murel Bah <ulhm@eaamemaa.ml> - 2023-08-05 18:10 +0000
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Liod Shakhtmeister <adlh@emlhsdha.os> - 2023-08-07 08:10 +0000
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:50 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0200
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 13:53 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:24 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:28 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-06 15:30 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:53 -0400
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:54 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:21 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:44 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:48 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:11 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:40 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:48 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 11:24 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 18:20 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 17:54 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 22:23 -0500
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:34 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:31 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:27 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 14:26 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-08-03 07:54 +0200
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 04:18 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 05:08 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 07:11 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:32 -0700
Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 12:26 -0400
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