Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #31935

Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File

From	Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File
Date	2023-05-09 20:34 +0200
Organization	eMagii
Message-ID	<u3e3oa$bcui$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <u2ft59$2bnd0$4@dont-email.me> <u2g1bu$2cdfn$3@dont-email.me> <u2gg9d$2ejus$3@dont-email.me> <u2k0mp$33teb$2@dont-email.me> <u2ltdt$3i28u$1@dont-email.me>

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Den 2023-04-30 kl. 16:19, skrev David Brown:
> On 29/04/2023 23:03, Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
>> Den 2023-04-28 kl. 15:04, skrev David Brown:
>>> On 28/04/2023 10:50, Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
>>>> Den 2023-04-28 kl. 09:38, skrev David Brown:
> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Or for my preferences, the CRC "DIGEST" would be put at the end of 
>>>>> the image, rather than near the start.  Then the "from, to" range 
>>>>> would cover the entire image except for the final CRC.  But I'd 
>>>>> have a similar directive for the length of the image at a specific 
>>>>> area near the start.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I really do not see a benefit of splitting the meta information 
>>>> about the image to two separate locations.
>>>>
>>>> The bootloader uses the struct for all checks.
>>>> It is a much simpler implementation once the tools support it.
>>>>
>>>> You might find it easier to write a tool which adds the CRC at the 
>>>> end, but that is a different issue.
>>>>
>>>> Occam's Razor!
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are different needs for different projects - and more than one 
>>> way to handle them.  I find adding a CRC at the end of the image 
>>> works best for me, but I have no problem appreciating that other 
>>> people have different solutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I'd be curious to know WHY it works best for you.
>> /Ulf
> 
> I regularly do not have a bootloader - I am not free to put a CRC at the 
> start of the image.  And if the bootloader itself needs to be updatable, 
> it is again impossible to have the CRC (or any other metadata) at the 
> start of the image.  I want most of the metadata to be at a fixed 
> location as close to the start as reasonably practical (such as after 
> the vector table, or other microcontroller-specific information that 
> might be used for flash security, early chip setup, etc.).  If I am to 
> have one single checksum for the image, which is what I prefer, then it 
> has to be at the end of the image.  For example, there might be :
> 
> 0x00000000 : vectors
> 0x00000400 : external flash configuration block
> 0x00000600 : program info metadata
> 0x00001000 : main program
>             : CRC
> 
> There is no way to have the metadata or CRC at the start of the image, 
> so the CRC goes at the end.

For the Bootloader, I keep the CRC right after the vectors.
I keep a copy of the vectors right after the CRC, and compare
the two vector tables.
This is to always know the location of the CRC.

> 
> It would be possible to have two CRCs - one that covers the vectors, 
> configuration information, and metadata and is placed second last in the 
> metadata block.  A second CRC placed last in the metadata block would 
> cover the main program - everything after the CRCs.  That would let me 
> have a single metadata block and no CRC at the end of the image. 
> However, it would mean splitting the check in two, rather than one check 
> for the whole image.  I don't see that as a benefit.
> 
> 
> When making images that are started from a bootloader, I certainly 
> /could/ put the CRC at the start.  But I see no particular reason to do 
> so - it makes a lot more sense to keep a similar format.
> 
You want more metadata like entry point and length, as well as text 
information about the image. Putting things in a header means that
location is fixed.
There are a number of checks in my bootloader to ensure that the
information in the header makes sense.

> (Bootloaders don't often have to check their own CRC - after all, even 
> if the CRC fails there is usually little you can do about it, except 
> charge on and hope for the best.  But if the bootloader is updatable in 
> system, then you want a CRC during the download procedure to check that 
> you have got a good download copy before updating the flash.)

In functional safety applications you regularily check the flash 
contents and refuse to boot if there is a mismatch.

/Ulf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Thread

Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-19 19:06 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-20 12:14 +0300
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 06:18 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File "Peter Heitzer" <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> - 2023-04-20 11:30 +0000
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File dalai lamah <antonio12358@hotmail.com> - 2023-04-20 13:47 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 06:04 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-20 16:46 +0200
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 11:33 -0400
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 09:45 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-20 22:26 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:36 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:12 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:35 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 16:44 -0400
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-20 22:37 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 12:43 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-21 04:39 -0700
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 16:50 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-21 17:29 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 16:57 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-24 00:32 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 16:37 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-05-03 00:15 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-03 14:48 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-09 20:42 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-10 10:06 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-10 12:03 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-08-05 01:48 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-08-05 01:42 -0700
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2023-04-21 19:40 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2023-04-20 20:17 +0300
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 16:49 -0400
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-20 22:09 -0400
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 19:41 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-21 19:30 -0400
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 01:53 -0700
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 05:12 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 17:02 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 16:56 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 17:01 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 20:14 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 17:13 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 09:56 -0700
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 19:54 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-04-22 20:05 +0000
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 17:37 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-04-23 17:37 +0000
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 23:45 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-23 18:16 -0400
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 09:13 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2023-04-22 13:41 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-23 10:34 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 23:58 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-23 15:24 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 09:17 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-24 01:07 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:42 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:20 +0200
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:44 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 16:52 -0700
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 20:23 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 07:07 -0700
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-22 10:31 -0400
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 09:54 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:26 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 10:09 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-27 21:29 +0300
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-27 21:39 +0300
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:44 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:38 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:50 +0200
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 15:04 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-29 23:03 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-30 16:19 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-09 20:34 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-10 10:18 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:33 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:36 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-28 01:10 +0300
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:54 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:24 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:56 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 15:09 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-29 23:02 +0200
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:27 +0200

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