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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #31832

Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File
Date 2023-04-23 23:58 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <u249ml$3vn9o$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <ef5ad4e6-57ed-4950-baed-3a6746b9d16en@googlegroups.com> <u20tin$3alrj$1@dont-email.me> <3986aac8-aec3-4cde-8bb8-8a61c20084c9n@googlegroups.com> <u2171f$3cbcu$1@dont-email.me> <99aaf8df-1f0e-4911-9706-0bac770e3d1cn@googlegroups.com>

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On 23/04/2023 19:34, Rick C wrote:
> On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 1:55:01 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 22/04/2023 18:56, Rick C wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 11:13:32 AM UTC-4, David Brown
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 22/04/2023 05:14, Rick C wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 11:02:28 AM UTC-4, David Brown
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/04/2023 14:12, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is simply to be able to say this version is unique, 
>>>>>>> regardless of what the version number says. Version
>>>>>>> numbers are set manually and not always done correctly.
>>>>>>> I'm looking for something as a backup so that if the
>>>>>>> checksums are different, I can be sure the versions are
>>>>>>> not the same.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The less work involved, the better.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Run a simple 32-bit crc over the image. The result is a
>>>>>> hash of the image. Any change in the image will show up as
>>>>>> a change in the crc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No one is trying to detect changes in the image. I'm trying
>>>>> to label the image in a way that can be read in operation.
>>>>> I'm using the checksum simply because that is easy to
>>>>> generate. I've had problems with version numbering in the
>>>>> past. It will be used, but I want it supplemented with a
>>>>> number that will change every time the design changes, at
>>>>> least with a high probability, such as 1 in 64k.
>>>>> 
>>>> Again - use a CRC. It will give you what you want.
>>> 
>>> Again - as will a simple addition checksum.
>> A simple addition checksum might be okay much of the time, but it 
>> doesn't have the resolving power of a CRC. If the source code
>> changes "a = 1; b = 2;" to "a = 2; b = 1;", the addition checksum
>> is likely to be exactly the same despite the change in the source.
>> In general, you will have much higher chance of collisions, though
>> I think it would be very hard to quantify that.
>> 
>> Maybe it will be good enough for you. Simple checksums were
>> popular once, and can still make sense if you are very short on
>> program space. But there are good reasons why they fell out of
>> favour in many uses.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> You might want to go for 32-bit CRC rather than a 16-bit CRC,
>>>> depending on the kind of program, how often you build it, and
>>>> what consequences a hash collision could have. With a 16-bit
>>>> CRC, you have a 5% chance of a collision after 82 builds. If
>>>> collisions only matter for releases, and you only release a
>>>> couple of updates, fine - but if they matter during development
>>>> builds, you are getting a more significant risk. Since a 32-bit
>>>> CRC is quick and easy, it's worth using.
>>> 
>>> Or, I might want to go with a simple checksum.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your comments.
>>> 
>> It's your choice (obviously). I only point out the weaknesses in
>> case anyone else is listening in to the thread.
>> 
>> If you like, I can post code for a 32-bit CRC. It's a table, and a
>> few lines of C code.
> 
> You know nothing of the project I am working on or those that I
> typically work on.  But thanks for the advice.
> 

You haven't given much to go on.  It is still not really clear (to me, 
at least) if you are asking about checksums or how to manipulate binary 
images as part of a build process, or what you are really asking.

When someone wants a checksum on an image file, the appropriate choice 
in most cases is a CRC.  If security is an issue, then a secure hash is 
needed.  For a very limited system, additive checksums might be then 
only realistic choice.

But more often, the reason people pick additive checksums rather than 
CRCs is because they don't realise that CRCs are actually very simple 
and efficient to implement.  People unfamiliar with them might have read 
a little, and think they need to do calculations for each bit (which is 
possible but /slow/), or that they would have to understand the theory 
of binary polynomial division rings (they don't).  They think CRC's are 
complicated and advanced, and shy away from them.

There are a number of people who read this group - maybe some of them 
have learned a little from this thread.

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Thread

Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-19 19:06 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-20 12:14 +0300
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 06:18 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File "Peter Heitzer" <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> - 2023-04-20 11:30 +0000
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File dalai lamah <antonio12358@hotmail.com> - 2023-04-20 13:47 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 06:04 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-20 16:46 +0200
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 11:33 -0400
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 09:45 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-20 22:26 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:36 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:12 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:35 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 16:44 -0400
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-20 22:37 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 12:43 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-21 04:39 -0700
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 16:50 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-21 17:29 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 16:57 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-04-24 00:32 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 16:37 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-05-03 00:15 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-03 14:48 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-09 20:42 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-10 10:06 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-10 12:03 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-08-05 01:48 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2023-08-05 01:42 -0700
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2023-04-21 19:40 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2023-04-20 20:17 +0300
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2023-04-20 16:49 -0400
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-20 22:09 -0400
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-20 19:41 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-21 19:30 -0400
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 01:53 -0700
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 05:12 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-21 17:02 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 16:56 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 17:01 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 20:14 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 17:13 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 09:56 -0700
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-22 19:54 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-04-22 20:05 +0000
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 17:37 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-04-23 17:37 +0000
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 23:45 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-23 18:16 -0400
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 09:13 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2023-04-22 13:41 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-23 10:34 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-23 23:58 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-23 15:24 -0700
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-24 09:17 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-24 01:07 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:42 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:20 +0200
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:44 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 16:52 -0700
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 20:23 -0700
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Brian Cockburn <brian.cockburn.1959@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 07:07 -0700
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-22 10:31 -0400
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 09:54 -0700
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:26 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 10:09 -0700
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-27 21:29 +0300
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-27 21:39 +0300
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:44 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:38 +0200
            Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:50 +0200
              Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 15:04 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-29 23:03 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-30 16:19 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-09 20:34 +0200
                Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-05-10 10:18 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:33 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:36 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2023-04-28 01:10 +0300
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:54 +0200
    Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 09:24 +0200
      Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 10:56 +0200
        Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-28 15:09 +0200
          Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-29 23:02 +0200
  Re: Embedding a Checksum in an Image File Ulf Samuelsson <ulf.r.samuelsson@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:27 +0200

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