Re: An argument against (the liberal use of) references

From	Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: An argument against (the liberal use of) references
Date	2022-12-08 07:52 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<tms54m$1qlh$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <tm9khr$2oi11$3@dont-email.me> <tmn9fl$1kpl$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tmo8ho$ahd1$1@dont-email.me> <tmpl1b$1pke$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tmqu6c$kv25$1@dont-email.me>

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Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you really need to copy/assign smart pointers in tight number-crunching
>> inner loops, then perhaps *don't* copy/assign such smart pointers in such
>> loops (or use any smart pointers for that matter)?
> 
> It really rears its ugly head when iterating large linked lists of 
> nodes... Read mostly, write rather rarely.

I don't see how iterating a linked list requires copying or assigning
smart pointers. Unless you are using the smart pointers as the next/prev
pointers of each node themselves. In which case you run into a recursive
reference counting situation, which I don't see how that's very feasible.

>> In scenarios that don't require the last clock cycles squeezed out of
>> them, does a "memory barrier" or other optimization hindrances really
>> matter all that much? 
> 
> Big time. Have you ever studied up on RCU? That is one of the reasons it 
> was created in the first place: to get rid of memory barriers on the 
> read side of the algorithm.

In scenarios that don't require the last clock cycles squeezed out of
them it's extremely important to squeeze the last clock cycles out?

I don't often like to quote the way-too-often-wrongly-quoted and
way-too-often-completely-misunderstood "early optimization is the
root of all evil", but in this case that it applies.

(In its original context, when Donald Knuth wrote that, he was saying
that your optimization efforts should be concentrated on the 3% of the
code where it actually matters. Something that most people don't know
about the quote. But it does apply here perfectly.)

Thread

An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-22 09:52 +0000
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2022-11-22 11:23 +0100
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-11-22 13:27 +0200
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-23 06:52 +0000
      Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 13:51 +0100
        Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-23 13:46 +0000
          Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-11-30 13:59 +0200
            Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-01 06:45 +0000
              Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 09:19 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> - 2022-12-01 14:06 +0100
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 16:45 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-01 16:02 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-01 19:09 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-02 05:53 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 14:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 12:29 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 20:55 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 12:58 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 21:18 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 14:16 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2022-12-02 21:09 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 13:22 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2022-12-02 21:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 14:13 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-02 18:33 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-01 11:59 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 23:53 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-02 04:11 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-01 12:21 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-06 11:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 12:26 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-06 20:39 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-06 23:53 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 13:59 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-06 22:04 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-12-06 21:38 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-07 15:22 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-07 18:37 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 14:01 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-07 09:05 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-07 12:48 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-07 12:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-08 07:52 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-08 05:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-08 13:30 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-09 12:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-12-11 12:18 +0100
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-08 13:38 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 16:45 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 04:35 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 15:36 +0100
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-11-22 15:21 +0000
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-22 10:48 -0500
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:18 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references El Jo <giorgio.zoppi@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:41 -0800
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:51 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 20:08 +0100

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