Re: An argument against (the liberal use of) references

From	Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: An argument against (the liberal use of) references
Date	2022-12-01 20:21 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<tmarc2$2rgl0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <tm9iig$1can$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tm9khr$2oi11$3@dont-email.me> <526054851.691592086.700998.DerTopper-web.de@news.eternal-september.org> <tmaeli$2qj9s$1@dont-email.me> <ge4iL.2764$lzK9.854@fx35.iad>

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01.12.2022 18:02 Scott Lurndal kirjutas:
> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> writes:
>> 01.12.2022 15:06 Stuart Redmann kirjutas:
> 
>   <snip>
> 
>>> Another thought: if thread-safety is too costly, you could use two smart
>>> pointer classes: thread-safe pointers and forwarding non-thread-safe smart
>>> pointers. The forwarding smart pointers have their own thread-UNsafe
>>> refcount and the thread-safe smart pointer as member.
>>
>> I tried to measure the impact of std::atomic<int> refcounters and in
>> first tests it seems the overhead on x86_64 is zero (with no
>> contention).
> 
> Which follows naturally from the fact that the core doing
> the atomic access has exclusive access to the cache line
> containing the refcounter.   No overhead at all, unless

Thanks for the clarifications!

> the ref counter isn't aligned and crosses a cache-line
> boundary (or the access is to an uncached memory
> range or caching is disabled), in which case the processor
> will take a system-wide
> lock to perform the operation, which is catastrophic
> on systems with large processor counts.

It is clear that having a misaligned cross-border atomic would be very 
bad. But what about normal uncached memory ranges, wouldn't these be 
just loaded into the cache, without disturbing other processors, and 
without any "catastrophic" consequences?

Thread

An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-22 09:52 +0000
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2022-11-22 11:23 +0100
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-11-22 13:27 +0200
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-23 06:52 +0000
      Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 13:51 +0100
        Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-23 13:46 +0000
          Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-11-30 13:59 +0200
            Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-01 06:45 +0000
              Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 09:19 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> - 2022-12-01 14:06 +0100
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 16:45 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-01 16:02 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-01 19:09 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-02 05:53 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 14:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 12:29 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 20:55 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 12:58 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-02 21:18 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 14:16 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2022-12-02 21:09 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 13:22 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2022-12-02 21:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-02 14:13 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-02 18:33 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-01 11:59 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-01 23:53 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-02 04:11 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-01 12:21 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-06 11:36 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 12:26 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-06 20:39 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-06 23:53 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 13:59 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-06 22:04 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-12-06 21:38 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-07 15:22 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-07 18:37 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-06 14:01 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-07 09:05 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-07 12:48 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-07 12:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-12-08 07:52 +0000
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-08 05:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-08 13:30 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-09 12:50 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-12-11 12:18 +0100
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-12-08 13:38 +0200
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 16:45 -0800
                Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 04:35 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 15:36 +0100
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-11-22 15:21 +0000
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-22 10:48 -0500
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:18 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references El Jo <giorgio.zoppi@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:41 -0800
    Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 13:51 -0800
  Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 20:08 +0100

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