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Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485
Date 2022-11-07 15:46 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <tkb5o6$3jsb2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <tk3f2t$1t3hc$1@dont-email.me> <3d9e5c38-93be-4504-b891-e0087053ebc7n@googlegroups.com> <tk5fkb$2dl2i$2@dont-email.me> <377ca797-345a-4daf-aa84-eb0e2fb889a6n@googlegroups.com> <nnd$6f3f0caf$4d60a848@f05e10f4dcc9e72b>

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On 07/11/2022 11:00, Stef wrote:
> On 2022-11-05 Rick C wrote in comp.arch.embedded:
>> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:58:24 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> In UART communication, this is handled at the protocol level rather than
>>> the hardware (though some UART hardware may have "idle detect" signals
>>> when more than 11 bits of high level are seen in a row). Some
>>> UART-based protocols also use a "break" signal between frames - that is
>>> a string of at least 11 bits of low level.
>>>
>>> If you do not have such pauses, and a receiver is out of step,
>>
>> You have failed to explain how a receiver would get "out of step".  The receiver syncs to every character transmitted.  If all characters are received, what else do you need?  How does it get "out of step"?
> 
> I have seen this happen in long messages (few kB) with no pauses between
> characters and transmitter and receiver set to 8,N,1. It seemed that the
> receiver needed the complete stop bit and then immediately saw the low
> of the next start bit. Detecting the edge when it was ready to see it,
> not when it actually happened. When the receiver is slightly slower than
> the transmitter, this caused the detection of the start bit (and
> therefor the whole character) to shift a tiny bit. This added up over
> the character stream until it eventually failed.
> 
> Lowering the baud rate did not solve the issue, but inserting pauses
> after a number of chars did. What also solved it was setting the
> transmitter to 2 stop bits and the receiver to one stop bit. This was a
> one way stream and this may not be possible on a bi-directional stream.
> 

An extra stop bit will help for this particular kind of error (and is a 
good idea if you get such errors often, as it will improve your 
percentage timing margins).  An occasional pause of at least 11 bit 
times will help for all sorts of possible errors.

Basically, it is a good idea to assume that sometimes things go wrong. 
There can be noise, interference, cosmic rays, power glitches - even in 
a system that has bug-free software, quality hardware, and no fallible 
human anywhere, there's always a risk of faults.  That is why most 
serial protocols have CRC's or other checksums, and at least a basic "if 
there is no reply, repeat the telegram" handler.



> I would expect a sensible UART implementation to allow for a slightly
> shorter stop bit to compensate for issues like this. But apparently this
> UART did not do so in the 1 stop bit setting. I have not tested if
> setting both ends to 2 stop bits also solved the problem.
> 
>

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Thread

Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-01 22:28 -0700
  Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-02 10:28 +0100
    Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2022-11-02 11:54 +0100
      Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-02 14:27 +0100
    Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-02 12:20 -0700
      Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-02 21:49 +0100
        Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-02 16:27 -0700
          Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-03 12:42 +0100
            Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 14:00 +0100
              Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-03 16:26 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 08:45 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-04 10:49 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 15:37 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-04 17:36 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 10:11 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-05 11:58 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 09:55 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 11:00 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-07 15:46 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 08:05 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-07 19:02 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 17:15 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-08 06:54 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-08 05:50 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> - 2022-11-09 10:45 +1100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-08 16:46 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> - 2022-11-09 22:32 +1100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-09 04:53 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-09 23:45 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-09 21:42 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2022-11-04 22:53 +0000
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 18:07 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2022-11-05 03:46 +0000
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 02:09 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 10:40 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-05 12:47 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 10:23 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-05 19:57 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 13:42 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-06 11:55 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-06 05:56 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-06 21:53 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 01:58 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 11:26 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 02:39 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 12:07 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 08:25 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 17:57 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 09:50 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 21:30 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 14:27 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-08 00:07 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 16:50 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-08 09:02 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-08 06:58 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-06 18:34 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-06 15:37 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-06 19:18 -0500
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 02:07 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 02:03 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 11:55 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 08:18 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 18:20 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 10:26 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Stef <me@this.is.invalid> - 2022-11-07 22:04 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 14:54 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-07 15:14 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 16:57 -0800
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-07 07:51 -0800
              Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 08:29 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-03 10:36 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 12:32 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-03 13:08 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 13:40 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-03 16:50 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 21:10 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-04 11:13 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 08:52 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-04 20:03 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-05 17:25 +0100
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-04 11:01 +0100
  Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-02 15:00 -0700
    Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-02 16:31 -0700
      Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-02 17:36 -0700
        Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-02 21:58 -0700
          Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-03 09:57 -0700
            Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 12:02 -0700
              Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-11-03 12:53 -0700
                Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 13:33 -0700
  Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2022-11-03 15:37 -0400
    Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 13:32 -0700
      Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-04 22:47 -0400
  Re: Shared Communications Bus - RS-422 or RS-485 chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2022-11-05 00:13 +0000

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