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Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip

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On 8/29/22 03:23, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2022-08-29, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Whereas if it is labelled "Warning: ignites glass, sand, research chemists",
>>> run really really fast.... :)
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> Sounds like the description of a Titanium fire.
> 
> I think I've seen that quote or something very similar to it in one
> of Derek Lowe's old "Things I Won't Work With" blog posts, and it
> referred to either chlorine trifluoride, chlorine pentafluoride,
> or elemental fluorine.
> 
> Titanium fires are also nasty as I was told by a guy who was
> supervising some chemical process--we have the world's largest
> chemical plant in town--when a titanium heat exchanger carrying hot
> nitric acid somehow caught fire and even the specially trained
> company firefighters eventually gave up and just let it burn itself
> out.
> 
He was originally referring to F-O-O-F or F2O2, and then discussed many, 
many other things of dubious distinction. F2O2 seems to be so unstable 
that it will go off if you even look at it or possibly even think about it.

It is worth giving him a read.

Fires involving nasties: The only metal fires I ever responded to 
involved magnesium. We did not carry Class D extinguishers since they 
were so rarely used e.g. for me only 3 times in 28 years. I have a 
pretty good story about one of them I could supply if anyone is 
interested. Basically, our procedure for anything like that was to let 
the metal burn itself out while, if possible, keeping the surroundings 
cool. Titanium would be a rare fire indeed, especially for a rural 
department like us. EXCEPT, Lockheed has a test facility (Bonnydoon) 
nearby and sometimes drives trucks through carrying God-Knows-What 
besides rocket fuel and explosives.

I found the following at 
https://www.ehs.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/docs/02-005CombustibleMetals.pdf

Titanium:
Specific gravity, 4.51; melting point, 3040°F (1670°C). At red heat, 
1300°F (704°C), the metal actively decomposes steam. Following strong 
nitric acid treatment, the metal may explode by the light impact or 
friction of handling with tongs. The powder can be ignited in pure 
carbon dioxide above 1260°F (682°C), in nitrogen above 1475°F (801°C), 
and in air at 626°F (330°C) to 1094°F (590°C). Powdered titanium 
immersed in water or wet with water at ordinary temperatures has been 
ignited by chemical reaction.

I saw molten steel and aluminum but nothing like titanium or any of the 
halogens on fire, except when my Chem professor at Cal threw a chunk of 
Sodium into a bowl of water.

-- 
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

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xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-08-25 17:44 -0500
  Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2022-08-25 18:07 -0700
    Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-08-25 21:15 -0500
      Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2022-08-25 19:20 -0700
        Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Peter Huebner <peter.huebner@gmail.com> - 2022-08-26 05:12 -0700
          Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2022-08-26 09:31 -0700
          Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2022-08-26 16:49 -0700
          Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2022-08-27 09:14 +0100
            Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Jonathan Harston <jgh@mdfs.net> - 2022-08-28 15:57 -0700
              Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2022-08-29 01:15 +0000
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2022-08-28 22:06 -0700
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2022-08-29 10:23 +0000
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2022-08-29 15:30 +0000
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2022-08-29 13:14 -0700
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2022-08-29 13:27 -0700
                Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2022-08-30 04:26 +0000
      Re: xkcd: Physics Safety Tip William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2022-08-26 12:13 -0700

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