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Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC?

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On 21/07/2022 20:10, Paul Rubin wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> 5. There is a perception (I can't say if it is fair or not) that SDCC
>> gives less efficient results than the big name compilers.
> 
> I haven't used Keil or IAR, but comparing GCC to SDCC, it seems to me
> that SDCC is a more primitive compiler.  There's a bunch of features
> absent and the error diagnostics were often unhelpful.  I've used SDCC
> twice.  Once was starting a small project from scratch, which wasn't too
> bad.  I just dealt with issues as they arose.  The other was attempting
> to port a midsized project (around 5K SLOC) from GCC to SDCC.  It became
> clear pretty quickly that getting an SDCC version working at all would
> be considerable effort and the resulting binary probably wouldn't fit on
> the target cpus I was thinking of.
> 
> I'm not at all trying to bag on SDCC since it is obviously useful, but I
> can understand why people sometimes look for more featureful compilers.
> 
> Finally, although both programs mentioned were written in C, GCC can
> also compile C++, which has some attractions.  I don't know if IAR or
> Keil compile C++.  I also remember thinking that it would be interesting
> to write embedded applications in Ada, and GCC compiles that too.  Right
> now I think there are no non-GCC compilers for Ada-2012 or later.

One key point here is that both IAR and Keil have toolchains targeting 
"big" processors, such as ARM.  These are more advanced toolchains, and 
support C++ (I don't know what standard versions - but I'd be surprised 
if they were fully up-to-date).

So when comparing features, SDCC features should be compared to those of 
Keil or IAR for the same target - and I doubt if anyone is using much 
C++ for the 8051 or 68HC05 processors.

As for Ada, the only "big name" commercial toolchain I know of for Ada 
is Green Hills, and it is only for ARM, PowerPC, and perhaps a few other 
32-bit devices.  There is GCC Ada for the 8-bit AVR, though I believe 
the run-time and library are somewhat incomplete.

There is no doubt that GCC is a vastly more feature-filled project than 
SDCC.  It is a world apart in terms of the languages it supports, the 
standards it follows, the static error checking, the diagnostics, the 
optimisations, etc.  But while they are both free (and open) compilers, 
the targets they support are very different.

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Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-07-20 13:49 +0200
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? "Peter Heitzer" <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> - 2022-07-20 14:23 +0000
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-07-20 18:33 +0200
    Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2022-07-20 15:55 -0400
      Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-07-21 12:58 +0200
        Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-07-21 15:05 +0000
          Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2022-07-21 13:18 -0400
            Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> - 2022-07-22 13:00 +1000
              Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2022-07-22 09:27 -0400
              Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2022-08-25 19:14 -0700
                Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2022-08-26 17:17 +0100
                Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-08-26 18:45 +0200
    Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2022-07-21 11:10 -0700
      Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2022-07-21 21:56 +0300
      Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-07-21 20:56 +0200
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2022-07-22 12:04 +0100
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2022-09-01 23:25 -0700
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Michael Schwingen <news-1513678000@discworld.dascon.de> - 2022-09-04 20:39 +0000
  Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-09-05 17:33 +0200
    Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2022-09-05 10:32 -0700
      Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-09-06 09:22 +0200
        Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2022-09-06 01:59 -0700
          Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-09-06 12:12 +0200
            Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2022-09-06 04:26 -0700
        Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-06 11:09 +0200
          Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-09-06 12:41 +0200
            Re: Why use non-free compilers (Keil, etc) for architectures supported by SDCC? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-06 15:00 +0200

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