Re: If Debian support OS certification?

From	Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: If Debian support OS certification?
Date	2017-05-04 02:30 +0200
Message-ID	<tDcOB-4jz-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Thu, 2017-05-04 at 07:56 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 12:17 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> 
> > No, they should not, otherwise this certification becomes meaningless.
> 
> I see these certifications primarily as a service to Debian users and
> not as endorsements of vendors, but as statements of fact. The
> consequences to users should stated as part of the certification
> output. "This system can run Debian main", "This system is missing
> drivers for XYZ", "This system requires non-free firmware", "This
> system requires a custom bootloader", "This system requires a custom
> kernel", "This system requires a custom kernel and must use sysvinit",
> "This system requires an unofficial Debian port", "This system
> requires recompiling Debian from scratch" (CPU requirements bumps or
> CPU bugs). Basically, a more automated version of InstallingDebianOn.

If we require that vendors make those caveats clear in any self-
certification, then I agree that this could be useful.

> If Debian only certifies systems installed using official d-i images
> then we won't be certifying much, since almost everything requires
> preinstalled or runtime-loaded non-free firmware for some part of the
> system. We would basically only be able to certify RYF devices and may
> as well just require FSF RYF certification up-front before a system
> can be certified for Debian use.

Well I already acknowledged that, didn't I?

> Since we already need two tiers of certifications for main vs
> non-free, is it really that much of a problem to add some more as long
> as our users are informed of the issues they will face?

My concern was that the bar you were setting was so low as to be
useless for distinguishing systems that are well supported by Debian
from those that are not.

> Users are
> going to buy or acquire those problematic systems anyway, especially
> in areas where there are almost zero devices that Debian could be
> certified for (for eg mobile devices). If they do and then decide to
> run Debian, information about what the consequences are would be
> useful.

Right.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
If the facts do not conform to your theory, they must be disposed of.

Thread

If Debian support OS certification? Eric Lai (賴裕文) <Eric_Lai@quantatw.com> - 2017-03-14 04:00 +0100
  Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-03-14 05:20 +0100
    Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-03-15 01:40 +0100
      RE: If Debian support OS certification? Eric Lai (賴裕文) <Eric_Lai@quantatw.com> - 2017-03-15 09:40 +0100
      Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-03-17 01:40 +0100
    Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-01 23:20 +0200
      Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-02 02:40 +0200
        Re: If Debian support OS certification? Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2017-05-02 03:10 +0200
        Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@debian.org> - 2017-05-02 20:00 +0200
          Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-03 11:00 +0200
            Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-05-03 18:20 +0200
              Re: If Debian support OS certification? "Andre Felipe Machado" <andremachado@techforce.com.br> - 2017-05-03 21:30 +0200
              Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-04 02:00 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-05-04 02:10 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-04 03:20 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-05-04 02:30 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-04 03:30 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-17 00:40 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-17 03:10 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-05-17 15:40 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-17 16:00 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2017-05-17 16:00 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Zlatan Todoric <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2017-05-18 11:30 +0200
          Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@debian.org> - 2017-05-16 08:20 +0200
            Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-16 10:20 +0200
        Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-04 18:30 +0200
        Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-05 17:00 +0200
          Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-05-05 23:50 +0200
            Re: If Debian support OS certification? Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2017-05-06 04:00 +0200
              Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-16 18:20 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-17 02:20 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-05-17 15:30 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-17 16:00 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-05-19 17:50 +0200
                Re: If Debian support OS certification? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-05-20 03:40 +0200
          Re: If Debian support OS certification? Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-05-06 09:40 +0200

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