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Re: A love of languages

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 08/04/2022 14:08, David Brown wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 14:16, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> In comp.lang.c++ Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> Additionally, it's hard to get Bash working on Windows. Bash is rather
>>> useless without a bunch of other tools like awk, sed, cp, mv, find, ...
>>>
>>> It is way easier to get a working Python installation.
>>
>> Is Python any easier?
>>
>> It's not like you can just run "apt install python" in Windows.
>>
> 
> Installing Python on Windows is simple - using the standard Windows 
> installation method.  Go to "www.python.org", click "Downloads", click 
> "Windows", and download and install it.  (Or perhaps skip a click or two 
> by just googling "install python" on a Windows machine.)
> 
> If you want to do more complicated Python work on Windows, and have 
> multiple versions installed, it can get a little more complicated.  But 
> for simple "install the latest Python", it's easy.
> 
> But anyone making a Python program that they want to make easy for 
> Windows can also use "py2exe" (or a similar system - there are a few to 
> choose from) that combines your Python code along with the Python 
> runtime, interpreter and required libraries, into a single exe file.  It 
> can be quite big - you probably have a minimum size of about 8 or 10 MB, 
> but that's rarely a problem.

I've downloaded one of those before; even for a simple program, there 
was an annoying start-up delay when I tried to run it.

Maybe it'll be different on my new machine, so I went to the py2exe 
site; there are ready-built distributions, but they are all .whl files 
that Windows knows nothing about. (Remember this is a program for 
Windows that runs on Windows.)

Apparently .whl can just be renamed to .zip (so what was the point)? I 
didn't get much further however, as it is still a complex application 
consisting of .exe files (no PY2EXE.EXE alas!), .dlls and various .py 
scripts.

It is not as simple as just doing 'py2exe prog.py' instead of 'python 
prog.py', and ending up with prog.exe.

> The user gets the convenience of 
> installing it and running it as a stand-alone program with no extra 
> dependencies, while the developer gets the convenience of writing in 
> Python with all its high-level libraries.
> 
> 
> The great majority of general-purpose Linux systems already have Python 
> installed by default - so the usual Linux installation method is to do 
> nothing.  (The only relatively modern Linux systems I have seen that 
> don't have Python don't have bash either - they have busybox for their 
> shell.)
> 
> Installing bash, awk, sed, and friends on Windows is not rocket science 
> either, but you need to know more - generally, the best way IMHO (other 
> than WSL or similar) is to install msys2.  And you can get Python with 
> that too :-)  (To get vaguely back to the newsgroups' topic, msys2 is 
> also a good way to get gcc, g++, make, binutils, and such programs for 
> use on Windows.)

It all sounds so simple!

Remember this was about writing and sharing simple scripts. Sharing a 
such a script on Windows, which remember is used by 'lay' people, should 
not involve first installing MSYS2, and or even running WSL (which even 
on my machine, first involves disabling compatility mode on all consoles).

Maybe there are other scripting languages which are just a .EXE file and 
the script file (Lua is a bit like that).

Then you just provide those two files, unless the script involves 
multiple files. However it is now simple enough that people can devise 
their own means of packaging them more tidily (into one EXE or one ZIP), 
rather than deal with the 1000s of files and 100s of directories of a 
sprawling language installation.

My own script language will always be 2 files: EXE and monolithic 
program (the latter generated with the interpreter using a -qa option), 
which can be further combined into one EXE if needed. But I make the 
extra effort. (However I don't have Python's 1000s of libraries.)

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Thread

A love of languages Jack Lemmon <invalid@invalid.net> - 2022-03-27 17:00 +0100
  Re: A love of languages Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 18:24 +0200
  Re: A love of languages Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-03-28 23:08 +0000
    Re: A love of languages Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-03-30 21:53 +0100
      Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-03-31 10:29 +0200
        Re: A love of languages Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-03-31 10:52 +0200
          Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-03-31 11:59 +0200
          Re: A love of languages Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-03-31 16:15 +0000
        Re: A love of languages Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-03-31 09:06 -0700
      Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-03-31 08:29 +0000
        Re: A love of languages Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-04-04 06:00 +0000
          Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-04-04 08:28 +0000
            Re: A love of languages Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-04-05 21:10 +0100
              Re: A love of languages red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-04-05 13:28 -0700
              Re: A love of languages om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2022-04-11 13:24 -0400
              Re: A love of languages om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2022-04-11 19:13 -0400
        Re: A love of languages legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-04-06 22:18 +0000
          Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-04-07 09:02 +0000
          Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-07 11:24 +0200
            Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-04-07 09:42 +0000
              Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-07 12:02 +0200
              Re: A love of languages Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2022-04-07 21:54 +0200
                Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-04-08 10:49 +0000
                Re: A love of languages Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 05:21 -0700
                Re: A love of languages Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-04-08 12:16 +0000
                Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-08 15:08 +0200
                Re: A love of languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-04-08 15:31 +0100
                Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-08 18:15 +0200
                Re: A love of languages Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-04-08 19:14 +0100
                Re: A love of languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-04-08 14:53 +0000
                Re: A love of languages David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-08 18:18 +0200
                Re: A love of languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-04-08 17:47 +0000
                Re: A love of languages Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-04-09 09:13 +0000
                Re: A love of languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-04-08 14:51 +0000
                Re: A love of languages Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-04-16 13:39 -0700
                Re: A love of languages Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2022-04-11 08:28 +0000
              Re: A love of languages legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-04-07 20:54 +0000

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