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Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints

From Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups sci.geo.satellite-nav, comp.text.pdf, alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints
Date 2022-01-06 22:35 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <sr7qrt$moe$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <sqolg6$1ait$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 07:07:35 -0800, sms wrote:

> On 1/5/2022 10:33 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> [8 quoted lines suppressed]
> 
> LOL, you may "care about facts" but you post nearly as much incorrect 
> information as nospam!
> 
> But I am willing to help educate you.
> 
> Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon
> <https://tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons>
> 
> The Three U.S. Networks-They Are Not Created Equal
> --------------------------------------------------
> The U.S. has three nationwide carriers, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon. 
> AT&T and Verizon evolved from legacy cellular networks over the years, 
> and built out a large network, acquiring smaller regional and rural 
> carriers along the way. T-Mobile was a PCS (1900 MHz only) network with 
> mainly urban coverage. All three networks work acceptably well in urban 
> areas. While no carrier has 100% geographic coverage if you plan to 
> travel to more remote areas, like National and State Parks, or if you 
> are going to be driving through rural areas, or if you're visiting the 
> outskirts of urban areas (often called the "greenbelt"), then you'll 
> want to avoid T-Mobile and choose AT&T or Verizon. Even non-tourists 
> that use T-Mobile as their main carrier often carry a second phone with 
> an AT&T or a Verizon prepaid SIM when traveling outside urban areas, 
> just in case of emergency.
> 
> You can see the vast differences in nationwide coverage here: 
> <https://i.imgur.com/irqFqyP.png> (data is from 
> <https://www.fcc.gov/BroadbandData/MobileMaps/mobile-map>). You can also 
> use the interactive map at 
> <https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/Coverage>. These are the 
> maps for each networks' native coverage. If you sign up for postpaid 
> service directly from the carrier, you also get some off-network roaming 
> on smaller, more rural carriers, but the carriers' prepaid services, and 
> their MVNOs (Mobile Virtual Network Operators), often do not include 
> off-network roaming (though sometimes they do).
> 
> What About "Free Roaming"
> -------------------------
> Some carriers advertise "free roaming." But understand that when a 
> carrier touts "free roaming" it doesn't mean "free roaming on every 
> other carrier, everywhere, no matter what" (except for emergency 911 
> service).
> 
> You can look at the carrier's maps and they'll explicitly show where 
> roaming is available. For example, in the Death Valley Area, all the 
> carriers roam onto Commnet, see the T-Mobile map at 
> <https://i.imgur.com/Ew4qf8I.jpeg>, but MVNOs usually won't roam even if 
> their maps show roaming.
> 
> In California, there are only two very small areas where T-Mobile has 
> any roaming: in the far north there's a little roaming on U.S. Cellular 
> and in Death Valley there's roaming on Commnet. There is no longer any 
> roaming on AT&T or Verizon. If you are in an area where AT&T and/or 
> Verizon are the only carriers then you will not have any coverage on 
> T-Mobile. Nor will AT&T or Verizon roam onto each other, or onto T-Mobile.
> 
> The problem for T-Mobile is that their native coverage is very small in 
> rural areas but they usually only roam onto small rural carriers and not 
> AT&T or Verizon. You can see some examples of the vast coverage 
> differences in the maps below (all taken from the FCC maps).
> 
> In fact T-Mobile complained to the FCC that AT&T and Verizon were 
> gouging for roaming services while AT&T and Verizon insisted that since 
> they incurred the capital expenditures of providing more ubiquitous 
> coverage that they should be able to charge a lot for it. T-Mobile was 
> especially upset that AT&T and Verizon were charging T-Mobile more than 
> AT&T's and Verizon's MVNOs were being charged; AT&T and Verizon argued 
> that their MVNOs were not using roaming simply to fill in gaps in 
> coverage in areas that would be expensive to expand coverage to (see 
> AT&T, Verizon challenge FCC's data roaming ruling that sided with 
> T-Mobile | Fierce Wireless).
> 
> Checking Network Coverage-Use the Tools from the FCC and WhistleOut
> 
> Prior to signing up for service, tourists should ensure that the network 
> that they choose will provide coverage in the areas that they plan to 
> visit. The FCC (Federal Communications Commission) has a nice tool that 
> compares the coverage of the different networks. Go to 
> <https://www.fcc.gov/BroadbandData/MobileMaps/mobile-map>. You can check 
> the various boxes for the different networks and see how much more of 
> rural areas that are covered by AT&T and Verizon versus T-Mobile. You 
> can also use the interactive map at 
> <https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/Coverage>.
> 
> Checking coverage is important because foreign tourists to the U.S. 
> often want to visit not just big cities, places like State and National 
> Parks which are usually located outside of urban areas.
> 
> It often upsets T-Mobile aficionados when vast differences in rural 
> coverage are shown, but I feel that it's important to be honest about 
> the differences in networks since it's a matter of both convenience as 
> well as a matter of safety.
> 
> Network Speed, Coverage, and Quality
> ------------------------------------
> "We're fastest." "No, we're fastest." "You have fake 5G." "Our 4G is 
> faster than your 5G." "We have the most 5G." "We have the most real 5G." 
> "Your coverage sucks." "No one needs coverage in Podunk, Idaho." "You 
> get free tacos if you choose us." "We have the happiest customers."
> 
> I received an email requesting that I add information regarding network 
> speed. Rather than parrot the absurd and conflicting marketing claims of 
> the carriers, I am adding the results of the most recent independent 
> surveys.
> 
>  From Rootmetrics: 
> <https://rootmetrics.com/en-US/content/us-state-of-the-mobile-union-1h-2021> 
> For the first half of 2021:
>     * Data Speed: 1. AT&T. 2. Verizon. 3.T-Mobile.
>     * Reliability: 1. Verizon. 2. AT&T. 3.T-Mobile.
>     * Accessibility: 1. Verizon. 2. AT&T. 3.T-Mobile.
>     * Calls: 1. Verizon. 2. AT&T. 3.T-Mobile.
>     * Texts: 1. Verizon &  AT&T. 3.T-Mobile.
> 
>  From J.D. Power: 
> <https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-wireless-network-quality-performance-study-volume-2>
>     * Verizon was ranked first in every U.S. region
>     * T-Mobile was ranked second in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and 
> West regions
>     * AT&T was ranked second in the North Central, Southeast, and 
> Southwest regions
> 
> I added several examples of coverage differences because often there are 
> "fanbois" of a carrier that will insist that "all carriers are created 
> equal," and get very upset when anyone points out any coverage 
> differences. Some fanbois insist that foreign visitors would be unlikely 
> to ever go outside of urban areas, where coverage is usually okay on all 
> carriers, but the reality is that foreign visitors often want to visit 
> places like state and national parks. So I've included a bunch of 
> examples of coverage differences that I've personally experienced.
> 
> * One area that I go through often is the Sierra Nevada mountains on 
> California State Highways 88, 4, 108, and 120, and the FCC map 
> highlights the very large differences in coverage in those areas; here 
> is a map comparing coverage in the central Sierras, a popular area for 
> tourists with National and State Parks, ski areas, and other recreation: 
> <https://i.imgur.com/uBD7ZQA.png>.
> 
> * One area we visit frequently is the southern part of San Mateo County. 
> In my younger days I used to do a lot of bicycling in this area, now 
> it's more hiking and road trips. Verizon has the best coverage of 
> course, but surprisingly T-Mobile beats AT&T in the town of Pescadero (I 
> recommend Duarte's restaurant). Sadly, T-Mobile doesn't even have 
> coverage on the major state highway, 84, between La Honda and the coast. 
> See <https://i.imgur.com/OgL844m.png>.
> 
> * Another area I go through often is the San Mateo and Santa Cruz coast 
> on California Highway 1; here is a map comparing coverage in that area, 
> where Verizon is superior, AT&T is a distant second, and T-Mobile an eve 
> further distant third: <https://i.imgur.com/QOqnAVP.png>.
> 
> * A very popular route for foreign tourists is the coastal road between 
> Los Angeles in San Francisco; here is a map comparing coverage in the 
> popular Big Sur area (bottom left): <https://i.imgur.com/ataZAOP.png>.
> 
> * The Pacific Northwest, (Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and 
> especially the coastal areas) is another popular destination for 
> tourists; here is a map comparing coverage in Oregon: 
> <https://i.imgur.com/qX5rz0Q.png> where you can see the vast differences 
> in coverage, in the inland areas but especially along the coast.
> 
> * Someone on Reddit/NoContract inquired about service in Montana so I 
> added that map set as well, see <https://i.imgur.com/Jk6XmCs.jpeg,
> 
> * Yosemite is a place we visit one or two times per year, often staying 
> in the "Yosemite West" area (technically outside the park boundary but 
> you have to go into the park to get there). One time we arrived in a 
> snowstorm and the key to our lodging wasn't left out. Thankfully I had 
> Verizon service so I could call the management company. AT&T and 
> T-Mobile have no coverage (Sprint used to roam on Verizon, but no more). 
> Verizon had acquired a small regional carrier, Golden State Cellular 
> upon which they used to roam. See <https://i.imgur.com/9zJhPUq.png>.
> 
> * An example of the the San Francisco Bay Area's "greenbelt," up to the 
> northwest corner of Marin County and Point Reyes National Seashore 
> (highly recommended), is at <https://i.imgur.com/BCRhffC.png>:, you can 
> see the gaps in coverage on AT&T and especially on T-Mobile.
> 
> * Muir Woods is another highly-recommended tourist destination in Marin 
> County and you can see how poor T-Mobile coverage is in that area, see 
> <https://i.imgur.com/QTPgy8j.png>:
> 
> * This is part of the Santa Clara and Santa Cruz Counties' greenbelt, 
> and again you can see the big advantage in coverage enjoyed by Verizon 
> subscribers, see <https://i.imgur.com/1w58JJA.png>
> 
> * Here is the area around Pinnacles National Park (highly recommended) 
> <https://i.imgur.com/HevfvTN.png>:
> 
> * Someone I know lives in one of the mountain communities of the Santa 
> Cruz Mountains. I did a comparison of that area. You can see the huge 
> advantage of Verizon, and how poor T-Mobile is at 
> <https://i.imgur.com/t8t7Xy2.png>:
> 
> * I grew up in South Florida, and still visit, so coverage there is of 
> interest to me, see <https://i.imgur.com/SoWWEk8.png>.
> 
> * Someone mentioned that their children were hiking between Loma Prieta 
> Peak and Mount Madonna so I did the coverage maps for that area, see 
> <https://i.imgur.com/0Nn3C2P.png>. You can see how tremendously better 
> Verizon coverage is in that area. It's especially important to have 
> coverage when in areas away from roads. At the very least take along a 
> phone that's on a prepaid Verizon service.
> 
> * A huge park in Santa Clara County is Henry Coe. You can see the big 
> differences in coverage at <https://i.imgur.com/g61Ss5T.jpeg,though even 
> Verizon doesn't have complete coverage.



On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 07:07:35 -0800, sms wrote:

> LOL, you may "care about facts" but you post nearly as much incorrect 
> information as nospam!

Steve,
Please don't turn into a child just because you don't like the facts.
I get it the only way you can combat facts is with ad hominem attacks.

The fact is you can't back up that claim above with even a _single_ fact.
If you could, I challenge you to *name just one*.

Worse, you've _never_ shown even a _single_ fact from me to be wrong.
In _decades_ of posting hundreds of facts each & every week, Steve.
Not even one.

Which means your entire belief system is _completely_ fabricated Steve.
You can't back up what you just said with even a _single_ fact, Steve.

So don't blindly claim all facts are wrong simply because you hate facts.

And don't pull this ad hominem shit again with me just because you have no
_adult_ defense to the facts which I clearly presented in this thread.

Your claims are either completely fabricated, Steve, or they are facts.
If _any_ of your claims are _not_ fabricated - let's _see_ the facts Steve.

Here, I'll give you that chance right now Steve to be an honest man.
Name just _one_ fact I've stated in this thread you say is wrong.
 *Name Just One*

HINT: An assessment is not the same as a fact, where the trolls like nospam
will say something like it's wrong to say that iOS is less functional than
Android where that's an assessment. 

Note a fact would be something like when I say there isn't a single app on
the iOS App store that can graph wifi signal strength for all access points
over time such as what Cellular-Z easily does for Android.
 <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=cellular-z&c=apps>

Until you back up your claims with facts, there's no sense in continuing.

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USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 04:32 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 08:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 09:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 10:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 11:28 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 13:22 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 13:54 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 16:50 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 17:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 18:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 18:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 19:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 20:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 21:10 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-02 03:27 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-03 01:59 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-03 02:18 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 00:07 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 00:30 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 01:10 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:31 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:47 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:58 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 03:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 21:38 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 23:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 23:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 06:34 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 06:52 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 07:14 +0000
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  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 23:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-07 20:17 +0000
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  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-08 02:27 +0000
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  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-09 00:08 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-12 02:00 +0000
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  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 19:45 +0000
    Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 19:45 +0000
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        Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 21:27 +0000
          Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 21:30 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:45 +0000
    Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:53 +0000
      Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:57 +0000
        Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 21:04 +0000
          Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 22:34 +0000

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