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Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints

From Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups sci.geo.satellite-nav, comp.text.pdf, alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints
Date 2022-01-05 21:38 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <sr533s$19j5$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <sqolg6$1ait$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:22:48 -0800, sms wrote:

>> What's wrong with free *roaming*?
>> 
>> I don't know how the MVNO's work when *roaming* but T-Mobile USA gives all
>> of us free *roaming* (at least on regular postpaid plans like mine is).
> 
> LOL, pretty sure that you understand that "free roaming" doesn't mean 
> "roaming on every other carrier no matter what" (except for 911).

First off, I never said anything about 911 but what I _did_ say was that
T-Mobile allows free roaming in the USA and in Europe.

I don't know _when_ I'm roaming but when I'm in Europe (which I frequently
visit) the roaming works just fine where _all_ the phone calls and wifi are
on the roaming towers - so we _know_ that roaming works.

I already can assume, ahead of time, that you'll likely claim T-Mobile
roaming in the USA sucks but what actual facts would you base that upon?
 
> You can look at the carrier's maps and they'll explicitly show where 
> roaming is available. For example, in the Death Valley Area, the 
> carriers, including T-Mobile, roam onto Commnet, see 
> <https://i.imgur.com/Ew4qf8I.jpeg>.

If you are going to provide a reference, I'll check it out.
But _that_ reference is in the middle of Death Valley for Christ's sake.

How many hours did you spend trying to find the _one_ spot that fit your
narrative Steve? It's unrealistic to claim the area we live in (which is the
Santa Cruz Mountains) is similar to Death Valley, Steve. It's just not.

We can cherry pick the area, where the area of concern should be where we
both live (which is in the fringes of the Santa Cruz mountains) and in the
case of this thread, the area between Mount Madonna & Loma Prieta.

It's all well and good that I can predict years in advance that you'll claim
Verizon coverage in those two areas is good and that T-Mobile coverage
you'll claim sucks (since that's your history) but we both _live_ there.

My coverage on T-Mobile is just fine and getting even better over time,
particularly with 5G for example - and this is in the same Santa Cruz
Mountains you claim that I don't have good coverage.

I just want to know if that good coverage is because of roaming or not.

> The problem for T-Mobile is that their native coverage is limited but 
> they usually only roam onto the small rural carriers, and not usually 
> onto AT&T or Verizon.

How do you know that?

Rest assured I knew (years ahead of time) that you'd say T-Mobile roaming
sucks but what actual _facts_ do you base that assessment upon in the area
we're talking about of the Santa Cruz Mountain range (where we both live)?

> In California, there are only two very small areas where T-Mobile has 
> any roaming at all. In the far north there's a little roaming onto U.S. 
> Cellular and in Death Valley there's roaming on Commnet.

How do you know that?
Can you point to a reference that backs up that claim?
(I'm not saying it's right or wrong; I'm asking where the data is from.)

> In fact T-Mobile complained to the FCC that AT&T and Verizon were 
> gouging for roaming services while AT&T and Verizon insisted that since 
> they incurred the capital expenditures of providing more ubiquitous 
> coverage that they should be able to charge a lot for it. T-Mobile was 
> especially upset that AT&T and Verizon were charging T-Mobile more than 
> AT&T and Verizon MVNOs were being charged.

Steve... you are being inconsistent. Either T-Mobile is roaming on AT&T &
Verizon towers or they're not. You can't logically claim T-Mobile isn't
roaming on them and then claim that T-Mobile doesn't like what they're
paying to roam on them.

You can't have both in any one given area such as the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Something is fishy about your claims.
 
> If you go to Alaska, T-Mobile is 100% roaming and an MVNO like Mint 
> Mobile has no coverage at all, nor do they roam on a carrier like 
> Commnet in Death Valley.

First off, you claim _all_ three major carriers roam in that area, so how
can you then use _that_ as a comparison about T-Mobile versus Verizon?

It's not even close to a logical position to take, Steve, that you claim
Verizon is better than T-Mobile when in that area that you point out,
Verizon is exactly no better (or worse) than T-Mobile anyway.

I don't know your educational level but I assume you took basic logic.
What you claim makes no logical sense, by your own facts and admission.

Besides, let's stick to the Santa Cruz Mountains, and if we need to get to
specific towers, let's stick with the area between Mt. Madonna & Loma
Prieta.

You already presented a case of what the T-Mobile native coverage is in that
area, so now we just need to ask _how_ T-Mobile free roaming changes that.
 
> I added this information to the document "Coverage Differences Between 
> AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon" at 
> <https://tinyurl.com/ATVCoverageComparisons>.

If you're going to provide a link, I, unlike the Apple apologists like
nospam, will actually look at the link to see if it backs up your claims.

That's a document you perhaps wrote titled 
 *Coverage Differences Between AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon*

What you claim there is EXACTLY OPPOSITE what PC Magazine recently claimed
where they must have spent tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands)
of dollars testing the coverage around the country that you write about.

What research do you run that beats that of the most recent PC Magazine
standardized testing which costs plenty of thousands of dollars to perform?

Why is your conclusion _not_ even remotely supported by PC Magazine's tests?

> 
> It often upsets T-Mobile aficionados when vast differences in rural 
> coverage are shown, but I feel that it's important to be honest about 
> the differences in networks since it's a matter of both convenience as 
> well as a matter of safety.

I get it that you claim that anyone who uses T-Mobile and is happy with the
coverage must be an unrealistic aficionado, but the fact is that my
neighbors, like yours, are on all three carriers and the coverage is about
the same for all three where I live & travel in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

I notice you don't read the PC magazine facts which shows that T-Mobile
coverage is just fine as it doesn't fit your pre-determined narrative.

All I want to know is that if I accept, a priori (that means sans facts
backing you up) that you claim T-Mobile coverage sucks compared to that of
Verizon or AT&T, and yet - if you take into account free roaming on T-Mobile
- why wouldn't the coverage be essentially the same in the area of concern
in this thread?

That is, you don't get to dig for hours to find the one spot where your
claims come true. You are stuck with (a) the Santa Cruz Mountains (where
both you and I live), and if we need greater granularity, then (b) the
towers affecting the area between Mt. Madonna and Loma Prieta.

If it's true what you say about T-Mobile towers, why doesn't the T-Mobile
free roaming fill in the coverage in _that_ area of common concern?

In summary, I am quite intelligent Steve, and therefore I can understand all
your arguments, but you just "saying" inconsistent things about the coverage
dilutes your argument immensely.

The fact I can _predict_ all your arguments years in advance is one thing,
but the fact that your arguments are _not supported_ in the least in the
latest PC Magazine countrywide tests should tell us that you have an ax to
grind with always claiming that Verizon is better than T-Mobile in the areas
we're talking about.

Maybe it is.
Maybe it isn't.

But your claims are completely inconsistent and hence not fully believable.
It could well turn out to be you who is a "Verizon aficionado" for example.

A key logical question is where do you get your facts from that T-Mobile
does not roam on Verizon or AT&T towers in the Santa Cruz Mountain area?

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Thread

USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 04:32 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 08:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 09:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 10:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 11:28 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 13:22 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 13:54 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 16:50 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 17:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 18:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 18:40 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 19:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 20:56 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-01 21:10 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-02 03:27 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-03 01:59 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-03 02:18 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 00:07 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 00:30 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 01:10 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:31 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:47 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 02:58 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 03:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 21:38 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 23:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-05 23:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 06:34 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 06:52 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 07:14 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 22:35 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 22:47 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-06 23:01 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-07 20:17 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-07 20:23 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-08 02:27 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-08 20:29 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-08 20:29 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-08 20:36 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-09 00:08 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-12 02:00 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-01-12 17:29 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 19:45 +0000
    Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 19:45 +0000
      Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 19:46 +0000
        Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 21:27 +0000
          Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-02-27 21:30 +0000
  Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:45 +0000
    Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:53 +0000
      Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 20:57 +0000
        Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 21:04 +0000
          Re: USA backcountry hike from Mount Madonna to Loma Prieta involving 2 topographic geoPDF quadrangles and iOS/Android plus GPX tracks & waypoints Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> - 2022-03-04 22:34 +0000

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