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Groups > comp.lang.c > #164279
| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Can this program be improved? |
| Date | 2022-01-04 18:41 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <sr24c4$i02$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (20 earlier) <b2918a53-acd6-4c46-9b58-6ac578bc055cn@googlegroups.com> <87y23wz9l9.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <ff338dd2-a4fe-4b06-8b4a-e3622b666c9en@googlegroups.com> <sr1058$1thv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sr1vgu$u1j$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
On 04/01/2022 17:18, Guillaume wrote: > Le 04/01/2022 à 09:23, Mateusz Viste a écrit : >> 2022-01-03 at 15:43 -0800, Malcolm McLean wrote: >>> will have been melted down for metal. So is 53 bits enough? I don't >>> write programs that deal withh amounts of money, so I don't really >>> know. However if I had to choose a C type, I'd probably go for >>> integer representation of amounts in cents, using a double. >> >> A double is nice to represent not-100%-precise fractional units, >> it really does not have its place in any kind of financial >> program, esp. if the goal is storing cents anyway. > > Absolutely. Using FP for financial calculations is for people who don't > know arithmetics. Maybe teaching some math (again) to CS students would > help, here? :) > > At the very least, if you absolutely want to use FP for this, at least > use decimal FP. Although it can still have precision issues due to its > floating point nature, at least rounding will not yield gross errors. 64-bit floating point can represent values up to c. 10 trillion dollars to the nearest cent. (I think the limit corresponds to the 2**52 bits of precision.) It won't be to the exact cent if printed to many decimals, but if you know it is supposed to represent values that end in exactly 0.00 to 0.99, then it will display properly if converted to text and rounded to 2 decimals. So it can be used to store such values. Calculating with it is a different matter if you are actually working with that kind of magnitude and actually need 1-cent accuracy and reproducability (which is going to be virtually nobody). > And if you're OK with using integers, but are afraid fixed-size ones (at > least 64 bits) could be an unacceptable limit down the road, just use > arbitrary precision arithmetic. And you don't need to hand-implement > that, unless it's your thing. GNU GMP is great. No, it isn't. It's a massive great dependency. If you really need to use it, look for GMP-lite (a solution using one .h and one .c file). However to me that would be a sign of someone who doesn't know what they're doing and just throws unnecessary precision at the problem in the hope it will magically fix any issues. Remember, even /decimal/ arbitrary precision integer or floating point could implemented using just float types, by always working within the known limitations of that type. Similarly, you can just directly work within the known limitations of ieee754. > One of the many problems with FP can be easily shown. Apart from the > usual unability to represent some numbers exactly, they also have an > inherent problem when, for instance, adding very small numbers to very > large ones. Can you give an example of a real-world financial calculation where that could happen? I mean, other than adding $0.01 to $10,000,000,000,000.00 or so; just get real. > Of course if all you do is writing "toy programs", use whatever. But > somehow, if this is a student work, I would have a problem with calling > student exercises "toy programs". That would certainly give them the > wrong idea about how to do things properly. If they once used FP for > financial operations, even on a small exercise, how can you know they > won't do the same later on at work when having to write code dealing > with financial calculations? I've used floating point for financial work. The world didn't end that I remember.
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Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-25 01:00 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-24 21:44 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-25 12:56 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-25 11:13 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-25 23:50 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 18:52 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-26 19:22 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 21:30 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-26 22:02 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-12-26 18:24 -0500
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-27 00:47 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2021-12-29 17:52 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-29 17:49 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-29 11:33 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-29 22:45 -0500
Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-30 00:35 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-30 10:19 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 18:19 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 19:33 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 14:37 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-29 23:09 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-12-29 23:54 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 16:11 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:34 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-30 12:49 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 21:04 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 02:13 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 16:09 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:59 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 17:48 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 20:47 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-30 01:06 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-30 04:48 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-30 18:16 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 02:20 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-31 18:25 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-31 18:13 -0500
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 23:59 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-31 16:20 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 16:35 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 00:53 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 20:22 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 22:04 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-01 14:59 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-02 17:22 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-02 20:49 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 03:09 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-03 16:22 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 14:42 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 14:52 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 22:58 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 04:27 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 13:39 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 00:18 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 15:24 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 15:43 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-01-03 21:19 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-04 09:23 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-01-04 18:18 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 10:35 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 14:07 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 15:11 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 15:47 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 18:30 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 23:46 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-04 18:41 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 10:52 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 19:00 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 11:15 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-01-04 21:57 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-04 21:02 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 21:38 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-01-04 23:01 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 09:31 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 01:30 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 14:55 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 06:21 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 16:49 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 15:56 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 15:03 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 22:54 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 09:22 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 03:30 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-03 17:22 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 08:48 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 18:42 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-03 17:59 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 11:09 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 20:32 +0100
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 11:58 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-03 18:13 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 20:05 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 16:53 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:29 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-25 12:47 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 18:56 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 17:38 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-12-25 10:58 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 19:16 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-12-25 11:25 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 15:01 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 23:09 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 20:56 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-12-25 19:30 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 15:50 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:02 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-25 11:53 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:00 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-25 11:22 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:01 +0000
Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 13:27 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-25 16:06 -0800
Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-29 15:21 +0000
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