Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott

From	Bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott
Date	2021-11-24 13:59 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<snlgfi$8hp$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <snj2k7$vojf$1@news.xmission.com> <snj65u$tmi$1@dont-email.me> <snjh78$8k0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <snjk6i$7qo$1@dont-email.me> <snjqvr$lp0$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 23/11/2021 22:46, David Brown wrote:
> On 23/11/2021 21:50, Bart wrote:

>> Or, how about efficient compilers? David Brown always contemptuously
>> dismisses mine even though they are fast, yet they show that the basic
>> job of source->binary translation can be done 1-2 magnitutes faster than
>> the heavy-duty compilers he favours.
>>
> 
> Yes.  But that is because I understand the difference between compiling
> code and /running/ compiled code.  As long as your compilation process
> is not so slow that it hinders the development process,

I find compilers such as gcc slower enough that they would hinder /me/. 
I can build my 3 main language tools, about 120Kloc and 100 files, in 
1/4 second, the same time it takes gcc to build hello.c, about 4 lines 
in one file.

> it doesn't
> matter.  If a program is only going to be used on a few systems or by a
> few people, then the dominant cost is the programmer (and their energy
> needs massively outweighs the compiler's).  If it is going to be used a
> lot, then the dominant cost is the target systems' runtime (and thus you
> want as efficient results as you can get from the source code).  At no
> point is the effort or energy required by the compiler at all relevant
> in the total sum.

It was a example of the sort of program that I can make run efficiently 
by making some extra effort, and also keeping things small, which 
actually was not written in C.

It isn't about language, except that everything else being equal, a C 
implementation of a computationally intensive application like mine is 
going to be faster than an equivalent CPython version, and mostly likely 
still faster than PyPy.

So if gcc was implemented in CPython, compiling hello.c might takes 10 
seconds instead of 0.25 seconds, but tcc does the job in 0.03 seconds.

Consider that on my machine, even an empty program takes 0.02 seconds to 
run...

Thread

"C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-22 16:19 -0600
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-22 14:58 -0800
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-23 07:10 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 13:12 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-24 10:54 +0000
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 12:01 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-24 13:58 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 13:23 -0800
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-22 18:25 -0500
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-23 07:21 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 04:50 -0800
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2021-11-23 17:56 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-24 10:55 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:00 -0600
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-24 16:04 +0000
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 11:43 +0100
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-23 14:17 +0200
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 16:53 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-24 11:40 +0200
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-24 15:49 +0000
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:01 -0600
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2021-11-24 11:33 +0200
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 15:28 -0600
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 14:39 +0100
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 16:55 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 12:28 -0500
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:05 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 13:41 -0500
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 19:53 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 16:31 -0800
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 21:27 -0500
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 18:32 +0100
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 12:54 -0500
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 20:52 +0100
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 15:13 -0500
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-11-25 19:13 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 16:25 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-24 15:48 +0000
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-24 11:54 -0500
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 11:19 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-11-25 11:46 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 15:57 +0000
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-25 07:04 -0500
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-25 15:59 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2021-11-26 03:37 -0800
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 16:03 +0100
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-23 15:50 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 17:51 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott DozingDog@thekennel.co - 2021-11-23 17:00 +0000
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 12:36 -0500
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 19:24 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-11-23 13:50 -0500
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 20:02 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 20:59 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 20:50 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2021-11-24 11:18 +1300
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 22:58 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 23:46 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 13:59 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-12-11 13:25 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-11 14:54 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-25 12:12 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-23 23:35 +0100
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-24 15:30 +0100
              Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 14:43 +0000
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-23 20:29 +0100
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-23 16:14 +0000
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 11:56 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 10:14 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-24 19:55 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:13 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:11 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 21:17 +0100
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-11-24 20:42 +0000
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-11-24 23:25 +0100
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-12-11 14:07 +0000
            Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-11 18:46 +0000
              [OT] Lisp.  Was: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-11 20:11 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-13 17:59 -0800
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-14 03:18 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-16 10:57 -0800
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-16 22:03 +0000
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Dave Dunfield <dave.dunfield@gmail.com> - 2021-12-20 02:40 -0800
                Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-12-20 12:05 +0000
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-11-24 14:12 -0800
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-11-25 12:00 +0100
  Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-12-05 22:51 +0200
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-05 19:20 -0800
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 01:52 -0800
        Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 12:19 -0800
          Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 12:27 -0800
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-06 12:28 +0100
      Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-12-06 13:40 +0200
    Re: "C Is The Greenest Programming Language" by: Chris Lott Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 16:21 +0100

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